Red Sox Ink Arroyo to 3 year 12 millon dollar deal

[a700hitter]

Yeah, he traded for Pedro and signed Manny, but he surrounded them with the likes of Jose Offerman, Dante Bichette, Bret Saberhagen, Hideo Nomo, and David Cone. All good players in their prime, but who weren't reliable in terms of performance or health when they were with the Sox.

Bichette, Saberhagen, Nomo and Cone were in their prime? Pull the stats and look for yourself.

[jsinger121]

because it keeps the payroll down and it lets you go out and get that young free agent who is UNDER 30 and spend the money on him. having players like papelbon, hansen, lester, pedroia, marte all making peanuts will allow the red sox to trim the payroll and get the older players out of here and spending the money on younger talent when they become free agents. i have seen a world series in my lifetime. i would love another but not at the expense of the long term success of the team. i would rather hold onto our young top prospects than trade them for over the hill stars.

[a700hitter]

Your theory does not hold water as far as a being a proven method of success. You saw the two lists- homegrown vs. imported. The Yankee problem has been poor balance. Too much hitting and not enough talent on the mound. It has nothing to do with homegrown talent. They still have that.

[ORS]

Bichette, Saberhagen, Nomo and Cone were in their prime? Pull the stats and look for yourself.

They were good in their prime, but the Sox didn't get any of their prime years. Wasn't that fairly obvious?

[jsinger121]

that was just the yankees get the lists from the both the 2002 angels and the 2003 marlins and you will see that most of the players came up through their farm system. i love what the red sox are doing. they are bringing in younger players from their farm system who are talented and merging them in with older players who they will eventually faze out. with 7 picks out of the top 100 the red sox can further strengthen their team for the future come next draft. with alot of good prospects on the cusp of boston the future in my eyes looks bright.

[a700hitter]

that was just the yankees get the lists from the both the 2002 angels and the 2003 marlins and you will see that most of the players came up through their farm system. i love what the red sox are doing. they are bringing in younger players from their farm system who are talented and merging them in with older players who they will eventually faze out. with 7 picks out of the top 100 the red sox can further strengthen their team for the future come next draft. with alot of good prospects on the cusp of boston the future in my eyes looks bright.

The Angels and the Marlins were one -year wonders, which is what the red Sox turned out to be.

[jsinger121]

the angels won with homegrown players in 2002 but it will be only a matter of time before they reach a championship again. with players such as brandon wood, howie kendrick, eric aybar, kendry morales, casey kotchman and jeff mathis on the way in the not too near future the angels will be setup for a very long time. combine that with the emergence of ervin santana and once jared weaver reaches the bigs that could be one scary team.

[a700hitter]

the angels won with homegrown players in 2002 but it will be only a matter of time before they reach a championship again. with players such as brandon wood, howie kendrick, eric aybar, kendry morales, casey kotchman and jeff mathis on the way in the not too near future the angels will be setup for a very long time. combine that with the emergence of ervin santana and once jared weaver reaches the bigs that could be one scary team.

Look me up when that happens.

[ORS]

The Angels and the Marlins were one -year wonders, which is what the red Sox turned out to be.

Hyperbole alert! Hyperbole alert!

 

The Sox were a one-year wonder? They won 95 games or more and went to the playoffs for 3 straight years. Holy crap are you impossible to please. What were they supposed to do, win 4 in 5 years like the Yankees? Sure, no sweat, that happens all the time.

[jsinger121]

i have never seen a more negative fan than him after the team just won a world series with a team that had a short window to win a title.

[riverside sluggers]

The Angels and the Marlins were one -year wonders, which is what the red Sox turned out to be.

 

How were the Marlins "1 year wonders" if theyve won 2 world series since 97?

[stocker323]

How were the Marlins "1 year wonders" if theyve won 2 world series since 97?

 

Well to be fair they were two totally different teams. I don't think they had any of the same players, coaches, management or ownership.

[jsinger121]

they won two titles but with 2 different teams but they built their 2003 team through the farm system.

[Plumpamania]

Is he even a sox fan?

[stocker323]

Is he even a sox fan?

 

http://www.talksox.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5014

[riverside sluggers]

they won two titles but with 2 different teams but they built their 2003 team through the farm system.

 

true, hence what the Sox are in the process of doing. 2007 is looking like a breakout year for our farm system's product

[Plumpamania]

And I totally agree. Marte/Lester/Papelbon/Hansen/Declarmen/Meredith/Alvarez all project to be ready then. Along with Shoppach and Youkilis. If Ellsbury continues to tear up he and Pedrioa will all be MLB starters

[jsinger121]

im in total agreement with and i am all for it. the future is very bright for the sox with the likes of papelbon, lester, hansen, delcarmen, marte, ellsbury, pedroia, big edgar.

[Cityofchampions33]

Anyone know the record for most home-grown players that started at once for a team?

[Plumpamania]

Homegrown you mean from the farm system or drafted. I conclude that "homegrown" is just from the farm or directly from someone elses (in the case that I'm about to post at least):

 

The 2006 Florida Marlins

[jsinger121]

The 1998 marlins put alot rookies on the field as well right after their first fire sale.

[ksushi]

Tino was drafted by the sox in 89 I think, funny huh?

 

 

sorry, but really am i ever on topic?

[a700hitter]

Hyperbole alert! Hyperbole alert!

 

The Sox were a one-year wonder? They won 95 games or more and went to the playoffs for 3 straight years. Holy crap are you impossible to please. What were they supposed to do, win 4 in 5 years like the Yankees? Sure, no sweat, that happens all the time.

It(i.e., a Dynasty) never happens when you let your stars walk away. I am actually not hard to please. I can live on the memories of 2004 for a long time, because I waited soooo long. I also know bad personell moves when I see them. You guys can yak yak yak all that stuff about a strong farm, the future, budgets, etc. All I know, is that the 2005 team would have been better with Pedro and Lowe, and we would be better in 2006 with Pedro, Lowe and Damon. ... and we'd still have our prospects. Lighten up guys, I can be a fan without agreeing with management or analyzing moves like I am a virtual gm with a budget. Screw Luchinno and the twins. Give Theo a checkbook and let him get us some players.

[a700hitter]

And I totally agree. Marte/Lester/Papelbon/Hansen/Declarmen/Meredith/Alvarez all project to be ready then. Along with Shoppach and Youkilis. If Ellsbury continues to tear up he and Pedrioa will all be MLB starters

I agree that it is a nice crop. It took a lot of hard work and research to put it together, and we will be lucky if one nor two of them develop into All-Stars. It's really difficult to develop All-Stars, which is why you don't let them walk away.

[ORS]

It(i.e., a Dynasty) never happens when you let your stars walk away. I am actually not hard to please. I can live on the memories of 2004 for a long time, because I waited soooo long. I also know bad personell moves when I see them. You guys can yak yak yak all that stuff about a strong farm, the future, budgets, etc. All I know, is that the 2005 team would have been better with Pedro and Lowe, and we would be better in 2006 with Pedro, Lowe and Damon. ... and we'd still have our prospects. Lighten up guys, I can be a fan without agreeing with management or analyzing moves like I am a virtual gm with a budget. Screw Luchinno and the twins. Give Theo a checkbook and let him get us some players.

If you continue to ignore the fact that they do have a budget, and they do, then you will be upset frequently. I suspect that you already know this, but don't care to appreciate the situation anyway. They, without question, would have been better in '05 and would be better in '06 with those guys, but I'm not so sure about '07 and '08, and that is the root of their caution.

 

Personally, I don't care how much they spend, but I am aware that there is a limit, and since there is I would prefer some prudence in their evaluation process. If this means avoiding "dead weight" situations by missing out on a couple of good years, then so be it. This will at least afford them the flexibility to acquire younger premium talent on the market or extend their own premium talent that meets the standard.

 

The method you prefer leaves them no wiggle room, as is evidenced by the Yankee's inability to find trading partners for their extremely overpaid busts. Damon at $13M per and Pedro at $13.5M per will become albatrosses if their performance slips, and given their physical condition and age, it is likely to happen. The NY clubs won't be able to get out from under those contracts without forking over some cash, as the Sox had to do to rid themselves of Renteria. And all of this is just more money that won't be available when the next generation of premium talent hits the market.

[a700hitter]

I agree that the FO should not spend money foolishly. $24 million for Jared Wright who has won more than 5 games only once since 1999 is pure foolishness, but investing in a great like Pedro would not be foolish. You can never gauge these things perfectly, but when guys have a successful track record like Damon and especially Pedro you take a chance that they stay healthy and won't go into a steep decline. Guys like that don't grow on trees or in farm systems either. A guy like Pedro comes around once in a generation. If you get stuck with one year of his contract at the end, he probably was more than worth it for the other three years. We could get stuck with Tek being in decline in 2 more years. This is very common for catchers in their mid-30's. Plus, Tek is not an all-time great like Pedro, but he is a big part of the team's heart and you don't cut out the heart. What makes you guys think that the FO guessed right giving Tek 4 years, but would have guessed wrong giving giving Pedro or Damon 4 years?

[krazeebrainz]

I think that Clemente is a better pitcher than people are giving him credit for. Bear in mind that at All Star break, he was one of the better pitchers in the American League. He didn't slide into the all star game, he should have been there in the first place.

 

He just wasn't the same pitcher after he was struck by that line drive in Tampa. He suffered greatly afterward. I know that he is traditionally a second half pitcher, but I have to think that this incident greatly effected his psyche and performance.

 

Clemente has fantastic movement on his pitches. From what I have heard, both hitters and Varitek alike say that he has good stuff. Give him one more year with 'Tekcatching him and I think he gives us about 15 wins this season...

[krazeebrainz]

Oops, I meant to say "tradionally NOT a second half pitcher." I'm tired and hitting the sack!

[jsinger121]

Pedro is not the pedro from 1998-2000. he is a different pedro. he is not the dominant pedro of old and now has a history of injury problems. the red sox were not ever going to take a chance and to 4 years with him no matter how good of a pitcher he is because was not the same pitcher he was before 2001. the mets were the only team willing to go 4 years with pedro and they foolishly did.

[riverside sluggers]

He just wasn't the same pitcher after he was struck by that line drive in Tampa. He suffered greatly afterward.

 

Keep in mind that it was right after the All Star Break not Tampa that his 2nd half went into decline. His 2 starts that he had against the yankees and white sox

 

Combined 8.2 innings, 11 Hits, 10 ER, 4 HRs, 7 Walks, 9 Ks