Some good news?

[Cityofchampions33]

Yeah, but if that were to happen then theyd be getting one of the best young talents in the game.

[26 to 6]

Agreed,, not even the prospects you traded away were that good, Halsey and Navarro both haven't done s*** yet.

Halsey was like their number 3 starter, and granted Navarro is garbage, hope he can turn it around

 

The yanks farm system is terrible, when eric duncan is your best prospect and he just hit .235 in trenton this year with an OBP of something like .330ish i think, its not happy times.

Granted, off year for Duncan, but lets not discount his performance in the Arizona Fall League. He was outstanding.

[jsinger121]

everyone hits in the AFL. its a hitters league. teams don't send there best pitchers to the AFL. that is why players tend to put up good offensive numbers.

[Cityofchampions33]

This is not to say that the Yankees can't change all this with a fw good drafts, such as the Sox did with Theo. We have drafted our top spects in the past 3 drafts, it's just that George drafts for the minor league levels not the Majors.

[ORS]

For those of you who still think the Sox are falling apart.

 

From Baseball Prospectus:

December 30, 2005

Prospectus Notebook

 

A lot has been made in the mainstream media about how the Red Sox are experiencing a meltdown this off-season, something that is largely borne out of the front office changes. Many have claimed that the Sox need a starter, short stop, first baseman, and center fielder. The center fielder part may be true, but the other claims are a bit off base.

 

For starters, the Red Sox have six capable starters on the roster--Bronson Arroyo, Josh Beckett, Matt Clement, Jonathan Papelbon, Curt Schilling, and Tim Wakefield. Of the group, the most suspect (and most expensive) are Schilling and Clement. Schilling was not particularly effective upon his return from injury, adding exactly 0.0 SNLVAR in his 11 starts. If you listen to sympathizers tell the tale of Clement’s ’05, you’re likely to hear how wildly different Clement was after his incident in Tampa Bay, and those folks aren’t far off. Without including the start in Tampa on 7/26, here are his breakdowns:

 

 

Matt Clement 2005 Splits

Period.......GS......IP.....ERA....Avg. GS...K/BF......BB/BF

Pre 7/26....18...114.0...3.87.....53.39....19.92%...7.26%

Post 7/26...11....63.0...4.86......47.55...13.57%...9.29%

 

 

Despite this split, early estimates have Clement as a yellow light, and he is a fair bet to regain his pre 7/26 form. Should that happen and should Schilling come back healthy, having six starters will be moot. However, the Sox do have other options on the 40-man roster should they need to dig deeper. David Wells, should he not be traded, would be starter number seven. Leonard Dinardo and his sick 2005 G/F ratio of 3.27 is at the very least a replacement level option. And then there is Jon Lester, who could be ready next August. Even Abe Alvarez will be there for his yearly trip on the Pawtucket Express. Add all of these guys up and it's easy to understand why the Sox did not feel the need to go overboard for Kevin Millwood, Jarrod Washburn, A.J. Burnett, or any other free agent this off-season. Combined with a restocked bullpen--one that should feature significantly more time for the likes of Papelbon, Guillermo Mota, Rudy Seanez, James Vermilyea, and Craig Hansen, and less time for the likes of John Halama, Chad Harville, Matt Mantei, and Mike Remlinger--and the Red Sox look to be in decent shape for 2006.

What of the infield then? What is really mystifying is the proclamation that the Sox need first base help. When given the chance, Kevin Youkilis has shown himself to be an above average defensive player. His FRAR, FRAA, and Rate stats at third and first base are all above average for his two Major League seasons. There's really no reason to think this production won’t continue when he slides to first base on a full-time basis. Offensively, his .279 EqA bested that of both Kevin Millar and John Olerud. In the admittedly limited data available, Youkilis has also shown no discernable platoon split, and could be plugged into the lineup on a full-time basis at first base. Should he need to be spelled in the field, David Ortiz really isn’t that bad an option, assuming his back and shoulder allow him to get on the field. Roberto Petagine is also still on the 40-man, and he and Ortiz essentially make signing a J.T. Snow redundant.

 

Shortstop is also not as bleak as it seems on the surface. Looking at members of the current 40-man roster, we can see that Alex Cora, Mark Loretta, and Tony Graffanino have played 308.2, 265.3, and 68.6 AdjG at SS at the Major League level, all at an average or slightly below average Rate. There is also Alejandro Machado, a player whose ’05 PECOTA forecast suggested he could be what Edgar Renteria was for Boston. His untranslated minor league Speed Score has been 6.50 or higher the past two seasons, and his OPS in Pawtucket was on par with the Sox SS production last season. While none of these candidates are Miguel Tejada, they are players who are capable of replicating and/or besting Renteria’s 2005 production. In addition, if the shortstop is not sucking away potential runs in the two slot because they don’t have Renteria’s "status," all the better for the offense as a whole. As far as non-40 man roster candidates go, there’s this Dustin Pedroia guy, who played SS full-time as recently as last year (and wait until you see his PECOTA forecast!).

 

Outside of center field, the Red Sox have quality players everywhere on the diamond. Some may not have the superstar cache or even name recognition, but that doesn’t mean they’re unqualified. The mainstream media has complained about this over the holidays, but they tend to like things both ways. In December and January they like to howl about the lack of a “proven” player, but should the Sox acquire a “proven” player, they will complain that there are no good positional battles to track in Spring Training. While the winter is not over and more moves are likely on the horizon, credit the Sox for at least conveying through their actions and non-actions that their internal candidates are well qualified to handle Major League jobs in 2006.

 

--Paul Swydan

[Cityofchampions33]

It's all the fairweather or unknowledgeable fans that have blown it out of proportion.

[26 to 6]

trust me guys, I know the organization isnt falling apart, it was an exaggeration. But there is no denying that they are not in the best of shape up there in Boston, but far from falling apart.

[jsinger121]

just because an organization lost a player doesn't mean they are falling apart. players come and go all the time as well as front office personal. its the nature of the game.

[example1]

everyone hits in the AFL. its a hitters league. teams don't send there best pitchers to the AFL. that is why players tend to put up good offensive numbers.

 

To be fair, Brandon Moss hit .236 .291 (OBP) .389 (SLG) .680 (OPS) in AZ. Should we write him off? I don't think so.

 

THe yankees farm system sucks because they traded all their good players. Hence, they have an outfield of Matsui, Sheffield, Damon along with players like Alex Rodriguez, Randy Johnson, Carl Pavano, Mike Mussina etc.,

 

I know they didn't get mos tof those guys through trades, but the point is that they are clearly ABLE to play without a great farm system because they will overpay over and over again. That's just the way it is. If they wanted a great farm system they could have one. Also, its not like their farm teams are finishing dead last in their respective leagues.

 

Die hard sox fan here, but I just think the sox-yankees farm system debate is kind of pointless. What matters is who wins on the field. If the sox win in a few years, more power to them.

[26 to 6]

If you ask me, I just hate listening to people bash our system based on what some guys on ESPN say. Scouts arent always right. We couldnt GIVE Cano away before last year, now he is our second baseme of the future. After Wang got hurt a couple years back, nobody thought he would be good again, and here he possibly the future ace of the staff. Point being you never know what you have down there. All I know is that all of our affiliates are always competitive and conteding in their respective leagues (except the 2004 Staten Island Yankees, but dont get me started on that , glad we got Tommy John out of there and got Stankiewicz back in there.) and thats what matters to me. Having players who know how to win.

[jsinger121]

i wouldn't say wang is a future ace. his strikeout rate is not that good. that is going to catch up with him. hes not a future ace. future aces have the ability to strike batters out something wang does not do very well. even though the yanks minor league teams have been successful does not mean they have talent. in the upper levels at trenton and columbus there are tons of filler players who have no realistic chance to make the majors. there use is to fill roster space in the minors because they don't have the talent to make the big leagues.

[26 to 6]

Ace's dont necesarily have to be power pitchers, but I understand where you are coming from. My point was that he will be atop the Yankees rotation for a long time, whether it be as the number 1, or the number 2 behind Hughes, or the number 3 behind Hughes and whoever else, point is that he looks to be a solid Major League starter if he can just keep it up.

[jsinger121]

that is if hughes can stay healthy as well as wang. both have shown to be injured. hughes has a chance to be more of an ace than wang but only if he stays healthy. to me wang is more of a number 3 or 4 pitcher because he doesn't strike enough hitters out. i would say the jury is still out on him. with low strikeout numbers and the ability to get rattled at times i think he has a chance to struggle. i want to see more of him before i would annoint him as a member of the yanks rotation for a long time. guys like him come and go quickly because of there inability to strike batters out.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

that is if hughes can stay healthy as well as wang. both have shown to be injured. hughes has a chance to be more of an ace than wang but only if he stays healthy. to me wang is more of a number 3 or 4 pitcher because he doesn't strike enough hitters out. i would say the jury is still out on him. with low strikeout numbers and the ability to get rattled at times i think he has a chance to struggle. i want to see more of him before i would annoint him as a member of the yanks rotation for a long time. guys like him come and go quickly because of there inability to strike batters out.

I'm not worried about Hughes health to be honest. Hughes was shutdown last season not because he was injuried but because the Yanees didnt want to overwork him. It was the newspapers that reported that he might have a tired arm or shoulder tendnites. I spoke with Frankie Pililere (pinstripes plus writer) and he told me he spoke with Hughes and he said he was fine. The other injury Hughes had was a broken toe that occured when he was running to get his cell phone from his hotel room. Thats just a freak injury. So I'm not worried yet about Hughes and his "injury problem". As for Wang if you look at his GB/FB ratio it shows hes a dominate ground ball pitcher(In SEPT he got 69 GB outs compared to 10 FB outs). So its not like hes Bronson Arroyo who strikes out only 100 a year but hes a fly ball pitcher. Wang's strike out pitch in the minors was a splitter but he scraped it and went with just his sinnker and his change up. He has a powerful sinker and if he uses his spillter more often I can project him to maybe a Brandon Webb type pitcher. Also where did you get that Wang could be rattled at times? In fact his character IMO shows the oppisite.

[jsinger121]

i saw him blow up in the playoffs. he was not very good after giving up some hits. in my opinion hes a number 4 starter at best. he gets alot of groundball outs but you still need to be able to strike batters out and he does not do that. before you pencil in hughes to the rotation i would like for him to get above low A ball first. he pitched the SALLY league last year so he still is awhile from even reaching the big leagues. still his shoulder issues are cause for concern.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

i saw him blow up in the playoffs. he was not very good after giving up some hits. in my opinion hes a number 4 starter at best. he gets alot of groundball outs but you still need to be able to strike batters out and he does not do that. before you pencil in hughes to the rotation i would like for him to get above low A ball first. he pitched the SALLY league last year so he still is awhile from even reaching the big leagues. still his shoulder issues are cause for concern.

Just like one of the great playoff pitchers in David Wells who blew up after the Graffanino error? Wang was on pace to win that start but the A-Rod error on the Caberea chopper changed everything. He didnt blow up, in fact he was out pitching John Lackey to that point. I'm not the only one calling Hughes a stud. Only baseball america and John Sickels are calling him a stud also.

[jsinger121]

he could be a stud....and i know BA has him the top yankees prospect. but remember he is only in A ball. low A ball. he still has a long way to come and who knows what will happen in the next 2 years. i thinks its way to early to be punching his ticket into the yankees rotation if you haven't even made it to double A or triple A yet.

[a700hitter]

Wang has the poise and a plus sinking fastball, but you have to be concerned that his shoulder will not hold up. He was rolling along, and suddenly he was on the DL with a suspected rotator cuff injury. He came back, but you have to wonder what kind of load his shoulder can take.

[Cityofchampions33]

Is it just me or have I heard comparisons of Wang to Lowe? I couldv'e sworn I heard it somewhere.

[Beckett95]

The Mets and Red Sox reportedly discussed a deal that would have sent Kaz Matsui and cash to Boston for Alex Cora.

Cora is likely a better choice to become Boston's starting shortstop than Matsui. Since the Red Sox have Cora and Dustin Pedroia as shortstop options, center field is the much bigger hole. Jan. 1 - 2:01 pm et

 

if they send 6 million over plus matsui then maybe, but i think cora is better defensively and theyre about the same offfensively. Maybe theyll then send matsui in some sort of deal to TB for gathright.

 

the mets have said theyd pay 5 million of matsui's contract, but the sox reportedly want 6 million

[guapo34]

The problem with Wang is he doesn't strike anybody out, and when pitchers put up seasons like he did last year without striking anyone out, they usually regress the next year. If hes close to that 3.64 era he put up last year I'll be shocked. You can say the same thing about Chacon.

[yankeessuck013]

if they send 6 million over plus matsui then maybe, but i think cora is better defensively and theyre about the same offfensively. Maybe theyll then send matsui in some sort of deal to TB for gathright.

 

the mets have said theyd pay 5 million of matsui's contract, but the sox reportedly want 6 million

 

We're essentially trading a utility SS/2B for a utility SS/2B. How does this help!? C'mon, the FO needs to complete a deal that actually gains us something.

[Cityofchampions33]

Agreed, the recent deals I'm hearing are basic swaps for something we don't need. Kaz Matsui is an overpaid underachiever, in which we don't need at all.

[26 to 6]

Theres definately some injury issues with Wang from a few years back, but the last few years he's been ok. Except with the exception of last year when he went on the DL in July, but I believe that was unrelated to his older injuries sustained in the Minors. I have confidence that he will be fine.

[26 to 6]

if they send 6 million over plus matsui then maybe, but i think cora is better defensively and theyre about the same offfensively. Maybe theyll then send matsui in some sort of deal to TB for gathright.

 

the mets have said theyd pay 5 million of matsui's contract, but the sox reportedly want 6 million

Kaz, throughout his career has been a MUCH better offensive player. But since coming to America hes struggled, though he did get off to a nice start back in 2004. I think he is a risk worth taking.

[ORS]

Kaz, throughout his career has been a MUCH better offensive player. But since coming to America ......

I don't care what he did AAAA-Japan, his career, as it pertains to comparing MLB players, began when he first donned the Mets uniform.

[ksushi]

Japanese hitters often have problems with American pitching. Hideki and Ichiro are abberations, not the rule. For every Hideki Matsui there is a Kaz Matsui who never adjusts.

[26 to 6]

I don't care what he did AAAA-Japan, his career, as it pertains to comparing MLB players, began when he first donned the Mets uniform.

Relax pal

 

Kaz, throughout his career has been a MUCH better offensive player. But since coming to America hes struggled, though he did get off to a nice start back in 2004. I think he is a risk worth taking.

 

Japanese hitters often have problems with American pitching. Hideki and Ichiro are abberations, not the rule. For every Hideki Matsui there is a Kaz Matsui who never adjusts.

Absolutely, a guy like So Taguchi has become a pretty respectable player here, but Norihiro Nakamura did ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE last year. But in Japan, So Taguchi wasnt good enough to even sniff Nakamura's jockstrap.

 

So it depends on the player and how they adjust. Same with pitching (but the rate of successful pitchers coming over is far greater than that of offensive players) You have guys like Kaz Sasaki who do good here and you have guys like Masao Kida the guy who pitched for the Mets a few years ago (not Masato Yoshii, im thinkinf of somebody else, forget his name at the moment.) who do pretty bad.

[a700hitter]

Kaz has no bat speed whatsoever. He'll never be much of a hitter in the ML.

[ksushi]

Can you stop attaching that annoying choke picture?