Ideas for sox Rotation in 06

[ORS]

Randy Johnson will NOT stay healthy this year. He's a 41 year old beanpole.

 

As for Clement, if the A's are not competing at the trade deadline, maybe the Sox could flip Clement and Shoppach for Zito? It's only a matter of time until Jason Kendall is horrendous. We would also avoid Clement's annual second half meltdown.

A decent SP and a good C prospect for a 2 month rental? Only if they are clearly one good rotation pitcher away from a title run and Zito is having a good year. Otherwise, no thanks.

 

EDIT: Actually, no thanks no matter what. If they are contending, Clement and Shoppach are likely going to be contributors. Plus, Beane will be looking for prospects, and if he doesn't get them, he'll take the draft picks. He's already got a Matt Clement named Esteban Loaiza.

[KeepTheFaith1229]

A decent SP and a good C prospect for a 2 month rental? Only if they are clearly one good rotation pitcher away from a title run and Zito is having a good year. Otherwise, no thanks.

 

 

If Zito would re-sign, it would be great.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

I don't. Beckett still throws hard and is intimidating. RJ does not and is not. Beckett is currently a better pitcher than RJ and I think any team would rather have him.

Your right a pitcher whos never thrown more then 180 innings should be counted on more and is better then a guy who won 18 games last year, pitched 225 innings and struck out 211(not in the weak NL EAST).

[CrespoBlows]

Your right a pitcher whos never thrown more then 180 innings should be counted on more and is better then a guy who won 18 games last year, pitched 225 innings and struck out 211(not in the weak NL EAST).

 

Usually when pitchers have no cartiledge in their knees and have shown a substansial drop off in velocity and movement, you can GUARANTEE a drop off next year.

 

Beckett has tremendous stuff, poise, and just the mental ability to flat out kick ass. Not to mention the fact that he is only 25 years old. Beckett's only getting better, Johnson is getting worse.

 

(According to Sports Weekly, the Yankees have one starting pitcher in the top fifty (Randy Johnson), the Red Sox have five, and that's not including Papelbon or Schilling)

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

I agree with you 100% on the #2 spot. Schilling may never be the same pitcher he was in 2004, but considering that he's finally healthy and can have a full offseason to get himself in proper pitching shape, he's much more reliable and effective than Mussina.

 

Schilling > Mussina

How can you say Schilling will be more effective and reliable then Mussina? Both of them missed time last season(Schilling more then Mussina). Schilling was coming off of very serious surgery. At his age there is no garentee that he will make it back. Thats an = if not Mussina>Schilling based on Schilling might not even being effective again.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Usually when pitchers have no cartiledge in their knees and have shown a substansial drop off in velocity and movement, you can GUARANTEE a drop off next year.

 

Beckett has tremendous stuff, poise, and just the mental ability to flat out kick ass. Not to mention the fact that he is only 25 years old. Beckett's only getting better, Johnson is getting worse.

 

(According to Sports Weekly, the Yankees have one starting pitcher in the top fifty (Randy Johnson), the Red Sox have five, and that's not including Papelbon or Schilling)

Boy oh boy that was a massive drop off he showed last year. I wish most of my pitches only won 18 games and pitched 225 innings with that bad knee that really hampered him last season(when you consider the only time he missed was due to a back injury not a knee) Please throw out the name that had that massive drop off. Who were the other Red Sox starters in the top 50? Is this also for the entire league or AL?

[KeepTheFaith1229]

You've got to be kidding me if you think Johnson won't decline this year.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

You've got to be kidding me if you think Johnson won't decline this year.

I never said he wont decline but you guys make it seem he will be Schilling of 05. Thats insane.

[CrespoBlows]

Boy oh boy that was a massive drop off he showed last year. I wish most of my pitches only won 18 games and pitched 225 innings with that bad knee that really hampered him last season(when you consider the only time he missed was due to a back injury not a knee) Please throw out the name that had that massive drop off. Who were the other Red Sox starters in the top 50? Is this also for the entire league or AL?

 

Holy s***. I think I saw delusion all over that post.

 

Randy Johnson's ERA jumped a whole run last year. His hits leaped by 30, and he even threw 30 less innings. He fanned 290 in '04, that dropped by 79 in '05. Not to mention his homeruns allowed nearly doubled. So are you really trying to convince yourself that Randy Johnson is a domiant pitcher?

 

Top 50 Red Sox starters.

 

Beckett, Wakefield, Arroyo, Clement, and Wells. I don't know the exact numbers, but they are in that order.

[CrespoBlows]

I never said he wont decline but you guys make it seem he will be Schilling of 05. Thats insane.

 

No one said that. Don't even try to pull that ********.

 

What we said is that you'll never see the domiant Randy Johnson again. It's more than likely he'll regress to a 4.00 ERA. He can't stay healthy all year with his knee, age, and back.

[jsinger121]

i expect schilling to bounce back because the injury takes about 18 months to fully recover and we will be past that come opening day. johnson is older and has no cartilage in his knee. his velocity is also down. he will be solid but will not win 20 games. id say 15-16 wins for johnson is the most you will get as his best days are behind him.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

No one said that. Don't even try to pull that ********.

 

What we said is that you'll never see the domiant Randy Johnson again. It's more than likely he'll regress to a 4.00 ERA. He can't stay healthy all year with his knee, age, and back.

 

Yankee fans keep going on about how the Sox rotation sucks, but it compares with theirs like this (as of now):

 

Schilling ? Johnson

Beckett > Mussina

Wakefield ? Wang

Clement > Wright

Papelbon > Pavano

 

Arroyo

 

Do you guys agree?

Do you see that Crespo? thats comparing Schilling and Johnson. Take your own advice.

[Optimist]

Alot of you people are more optimistic than me...

 

I mean, what's next... "Foulke > Mariano!!!1!!one!"?

[yeszir]

Alot of you people are more optimistic than me...

 

I mean, what's next... "Foulke > Mariano!!!1!!one!"?

I bet you Keith Foulke could get David Ortiz out more often than Mariano Rivera could.

[KeepTheFaith1229]

I put the ? between Schilling and RJ because both of them are tossups right now and both of them will likely be on the DL at one point this season.

[Optimist]

I bet you Keith Foulke could get David Ortiz out more often than Mariano Rivera could.

 

I stared at the monitor for like 5 minutes before I realized I have no response to that.:dunno:

 

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

I put the ? between Schilling and RJ because both of them are tossups right now and both of them will likely be on the DL at one point this season.

and your basing that on because Schilling spent how many days on the DL and RJ spent 0 days on the DL last season? again you can say he will decline but to compare Johnson and 18 game winner with 200 K's to Schilling who couldnt get his splitter over last season and is 39? and still working his way back from ankle surgery is a bit ridicules. I know RJ is a Yankee and all but be realistic.

[yeszir]

I stared at the monitor for like 5 minutes before I realized I have no response to that.:dunno:

 

I win!

[CrespoBlows]

Do you see that Crespo? thats comparing Schilling and Johnson. Take your own advice.

 

Hey dipshit, does my username say KeeptheFaith or Crespo? Anyways, I believe he was comparing Schilling THIS year, to Johnson this year. Oh, and that looks like a ? mark.

[Optimist]

I'm thinking about this argument and I think it's boiling down to this...

 

"My house will burn down slower than yours!"

 

"No, mine will!"

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Hey dipshit, does my username say KeeptheFaith or Crespo? Anyways, I believe he was comparing Schilling THIS year, to Johnson this year. Oh, and that looks like a ? mark.

Man your a pin head. If I recall you said "No one said that" refering to everyone in the thread. I just pointed out one person who classified Johnson and Schilling in the same catogory. and hes comparing them based on last season. What else could he be basing the comparison on? If its not last season then its his own personal (and biased) opinion of what they will do. Which I take with a grain of salt because he is a Red Sox fan thus is biased.

[jimmycarter05]

I'm thinking about this argument and I think it's boiling down to this...

 

"My house will burn down slower than yours!"

 

"No, mine will!"

 

 

Sports baby! Hate It or Love It! (that's a great song too.)

[Cityofchampions33]

Johnson has already stated his decline, and with age comes wear and tear which can only down his performance further. His back and knee should land him on the DL at least once.

 

Ks: (2004) 290 - (2005) 211

Innings: 245 - 225

W.h.i.p: .900 - 1.126

Hits: 177 - 207

Runs: 88 - 102

HRs: 18 - 32

 

There are a few other signs of delining but theyre minor

[KeepTheFaith1229]

and your basing that on because Schilling spent how many days on the DL and RJ spent 0 days on the DL last season? again you can say he will decline but to compare Johnson and 18 game winner with 200 K's to Schilling who couldnt get his splitter over last season and is 39? and still working his way back from ankle surgery is a bit ridicules. I know RJ is a Yankee and all but be realistic.

 

 

2005 was rehab for Schilling. Schilling will be MUCH improved in 2006, maybe not to his '04 form, but he'll be solid. If you want to kid yourself and believe RJ can stay off the DL in 2006, be my guest. I'm not saying Schilling won't, but he'll be better than RJ.

 

P.S. I'm changing that ? to a >

[Optimist]

Johnson has already stated his decline, and with age comes wear and tear which can only down his performance further. His back and knee should land him on the DL at least once.

 

Ks: (2004) 290 - (2005) 211

Innings: 245 - 225

W.h.i.p: .900 - 1.126

Hits: 177 - 207

Runs: 88 - 102

HRs: 18 - 32

 

There are a few other signs of delining but theyre minor

 

Oh and I'm sure none of that has to do with switching to the AL East...

[Optimist]

This is a funny thread...I'm looking forward to it stretching to other topics.

 

I wonder how long before we see, " (BLANK) > Jeter" or "(BLANK) > Damon."

[yeszir]

This is a funny thread...I'm looking forward to it stretching to other topics.

 

I wonder how long before we see, " (BLANK) > Jeter" or "(BLANK) > Damon."

Pre 2001 Nomar>Jeter and My Poop>Damon

[Optimist]

Pre 2001 Nomar>Jeter and My Poop>Damon

 

Yes Network Forum > TalkSox :harhar:

 

 

 

 

Of course, I'm kidding.

[example1]

This topic has really devolved... geez.

 

Beckett is better on many fronts than RJ, particularly health, age and build. Statistically they were similar last year... Beckett should continue getting better, Johnson should continue getting worse.

 

I hate it when someone keeps pointing to the number of WINS a pitcher has, or the number of INNINGS he threw. Johnson needed to throw innings last year; he's getting paid tons of money to anchor an old and injured, tired staff. So of course he got innings. And of course he got wins, he pitches for the YANKEES! Very few pitchers could NOT win at least some games with that lineup behind them.

 

You neglect to mention that RJ was pretty average away from the house that ruth built (ERA 3.13 vs. 4.64), he gave up 32 HR (vs. 14 for Beckett). I didn't mean for a whole debate to start by arguing against Johnson > Beckett, I just am happy to have Beckett and would rather have him than Johnson, both for this year and for the 6-7 years in the future that he will be a productive pitcher in this league. (FWIW, Beckett also had poor home/away splits, slightly better than RJ).

 

Johnson is in a decline. He will be tough in a big game, as their best big game pitcher. In a playoff round I think Johnson vs. Schilling or Johnson vs. Beckett would be a wash pitching-wise. Of course, the Yanks can't throw Johnson both days so we'll have to see what they do otherwise. I would be too optimistic about the Yanks pitching staff.

[example1]

Oh and I'm sure none of that has to do with switching to the AL East...

 

Well, he wasn't pitching to the Yankees, mostly the Sox, Toronto, TB and Tor. I'm not sure how those 4 teams were statistically, but its not the same as someone coming to TB, TOR or BAL. Just to be fair...