Sox and Yankees only teams to pay Luxury tax

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Yeah 4 million dollars is really going to make the Pirates a winner.

Put it toward your scouting department and it will pay off. Just look at the Brewers. They put all of there revenue money to their scouting department and their ballpark and they have an amazing farm and a team on the rise. (I saw this on a piece done by that show on HBO I forgot the name)

[MC Hammer]

Put it toward your scouting department and it will pay off. Just look at the Brewers. They put all of there revenue money to their scouting department and they have an amazing farm and a team on the rise. (I saw this on a piece done by that show on HBO I forgot the name)

Right and how many years away are the Brewers from competing for a championship? As payrolls get higher it makes it very hard for teams like the brewers to hold on to players they actually have. So the only way teams like the Brewers can compete is if they can steadily produce the best prospects every single year ... which is impossble.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Right and how many years away are the Brewers from competing for a championship? As payrolls get higher it makes it very hard for teams like the brewers to hold on to players they actually have. So the only way teams like the Brewers can compete is if they can steadily produce the best prospects every single year ... which is impossble.

Intresting you said as payrolls get higher. The Yankee payroll will actually be lower next year. It will continue to get lower as the horrible contracts(Mussina,Posada,Wright who has a buy out, etc from just a few years ago roll off.) So that statement isnt accurate. At worst the payroll will reamin similar. So despite the reports the Yankees are slowly(very slowly) returning back to the pack (or just the Red Sox)

[MC Hammer]

Intresting you said as payrolls get higher. The Yankee payroll will actually be lower next year. It will continue to get lower as the horrible contracts(Mussina,Posada,Wright who has a buy out, etc from just a few years ago roll off. So that statement isnt accurate. At worst the payroll will reamin similar. So despite the reports the Yankees are slowly(very slowly) returning back to the pack (or just the Red Sox)

Right it will continue to get lower and then suddenly get higer when contracts comprible to Damon's are added every year ... usually several every offseason. The Yankees payroll may be down for a year or two, but they will continue to acquire stars and will continue to have by far the highest payroll in baseball.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Right it will continue to get lower and then suddenly get higer when contracts comprible to Damon's are added every year ... usually several every offseason. The Yankees payroll may be down for a year or two, but they will continue to acquire stars and will continue to have by far the highest payroll in baseball.

Your assuming that. The Yankees this winter (outside of Damon) have been VERY conservative in their moves. Which I beleive will continue with Cashman in charge. Your also assuming that the market wont change. Consider this, just a few years ago Manny and A-Rod recieved HUGE contrcts. 2 years ago Vlad Guerrero becomes a FA and he gets a 70 MILL deal. If he was a FA just a few years before he easily cracks 100 MILL.The maket goes up and down. You can count on Damons contract as being the norm for the future.

[ORS]

Thats where the luxary tax comes in. Put that to good use and as Jimmy Carter said draft/scout better and you will have a winner.

You are kidding me, right? The Yanks and Sox combined for about $40M in cap penalties. This gets split up among the remaining teams depending on how much their payroll is below league average. Using data from usatoday.com (which I know isn't official, but is close enough to prove a point), 17 teams are below league average in payroll. The Devil Rays had the lowest payroll at $29M. The league average was $74M. The total difference from league average was $380M. The Devil Rays accounted for 11.8% of this difference, which would net them $4.74M of the penalty funds. How in the world does an extra $5M give them a chance to be more competitive?

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

You are kidding me, right? The Yanks and Sox combined for about $40M in cap penalties. This gets split up among the remaining teams depending on how much their payroll is below league average. Using data from usatoday.com (which I know isn't official, but is close enough to prove a point), 17 teams are below league average in payroll. The Devil Rays had the lowest payroll at $29M. The league average was $74M. The total difference from league average was $380M. The Devil Rays accounted for 11.8% of this difference, which would net them $4.74M of the penalty funds. How in the world does an extra $5M give them a chance to be more competitive?

I anwsered that question already

[MC Hammer]

You are kidding me, right? The Yanks and Sox combined for about $40M in cap penalties. This gets split up among the remaining teams depending on how much their payroll is below league average. Using data from usatoday.com (which I know isn't official, but is close enough to prove a point), 17 teams are below league average in payroll. The Devil Rays had the lowest payroll at $29M. The league average was $74M. The total difference from league average was $380M. The Devil Rays accounted for 11.8% of this difference, which would net them $4.74M of the penalty funds. How in the world does an extra $5M give them a chance to be more competitive?

That's exactly what I said earlier but without the exact numbers. Thanks for further proving my point.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

That's exactly what I said earlier but without the exact numbers. Thanks for further proving my point.

thats another point. How much do we know they are getting? Could be more could be less.

[ORS]

The CBA alots for the salary cap penalty funds to be distributed among the teams that have a payroll below league average. From what I can gather, this is distributed on a prorated system like I outlined in my previous post where the teams award will depend on what percentage their difference was of the total difference. The amounts that the smaller market teams will get is a pittance compared to the spending of the big market clubs. Maybe a cap isn't totally necessary, but they at least need to raise the penalty rate to 75% or so in order to make teams think long and hard about exceeding the cap.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

I'm gonna have to call it a night. In closing I just want to say this topic always comes up when the Yankees sign a major free agent and I've fought this battle before. Weather its Jason Giambi, or Mike Mussina or Alex Rodriguez the headline right behind it is the rich get richer. The cap is purly centered around the Yankees and not helping the smaller market clubs. You use the smaller market clubs to camouflage your real agenda. Of course that isnt true for some fans like MC Hammer and One Red Seat but I know for a fact most fans here dont give a crapola about the Royals.

[Manny Goes Boom]

and again , D-Backs, Angels, Marlins, Red Sox, White Sox. Isnt that parody? These past postseasons have been the grestest ever. As for baseball surviving.........its hardy dying.

 

Nice try with these teams...

 

D-Backs had a payroll of roughly 107 million when they won the WS (6th in baseball...NOT a small market when they won)

 

Angels I believe (not sure) had a very high payroll as well when they won.

 

Well we all see what is happening with the Marlins, they are selling off all their players because they had high contracts.

 

We had the SECOND highest payroll in baseball when we won. 'Nuff said.

 

I'm not positive about the White Sox but I thought they had a $100 Million dollar payroll last year.

 

I wouldn't call those teams small market teams (at least when they won). And the Red Sox are definately not a small market team.

 

One PRIME example I can say is that people always said about the D'Backs that they we're "...built to win now." Meaning that they assembled (bought) a group of very talented vets who couldn't uphold a streak of a few consecutive years because of their age. And now a few years down the road they are ABSOLUTELY AWFUL because they are feeling the hit of spending so much money to field a winner, and probably won't be competetive for quite awhile because of the difference in the payrolls. Its sad actually...4 years after winning a World Series and they have had a 59-111 record and missed the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years (Went back in '02 to be swept by St. Louis).

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Nice try with these teams...

 

D-Backs had a payroll of roughly 107 million when they won the WS (6th in baseball...NOT a small market when they won)

 

Angels I believe (not sure) had a very high payroll as well when they won.

 

Well we all see what is happening with the Marlins, they are selling off all their players because they had high contracts.

 

We had the SECOND highest payroll in baseball when we won. 'Nuff said.

 

I'm not positive about the White Sox but I thought they had a $100 Million dollar payroll last year.

 

I wouldn't call those teams small market teams (at least when they won). And the Red Sox are definately not a small market team.

 

One PRIME example I can say is that people always said about the D'Backs that they we're "...built to win now." Meaning that they assembled (bought) a group of very talented vets who couldn't uphold a streak of a few consecutive years because of their age. And now a few years down the road they are ABSOLUTELY AWFUL because they are feeling the hit of spending so much money to field a winner, and probably won't be competetive for quite awhile because of the difference in the payrolls. Its sad actually...4 years after winning a World Series and they have had a 59-111 record and missed the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years (Went back in '02 to be swept by St. Louis).

I know I said that would be it but I have to respond to this:

 

WOW come on? are you kidding me?, The Marlins this winter sold off (for the most off) pieces that werent even there for the 2003 run. The White Sox just added Jim Thome and Vazquez and there payroll currently stands at 75 mill (per ESPN http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/salaries?team=chw) and the Angels had a 2002 opening day payroll of 62 mill. The D-Backs had a payroll of 87 million( http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/2001/04/09/arizona_salary/ ) and excuse me for not feeling bad for the D-Backs when they traded RJ and Curt Schilling for what amounts to a bag of s*** then precced to hand out 4 year deals to the likes of Russ Ortiz. Thats called being stupid. I picked those 5 teams to show that there has been parody despite what you and some media types say.

 

ALSO before you try and blow up my point etc etc, try and do some reserch instead of just throwing statements out there about how the White Sox payroll must be over 100 mill(When infact it barely cracked 70) and how the Marlins traded off all of there big salery players(when most werent even on the 03 roster). You could have saved us all alot of time.

[jimmycarter05]

I know I said that would be it but I have to respond to this:

 

WOW come on? are you kidding me?, The Marlins this winter sold off (for the most off) pieces that werent even there for the 2003 run. The White Sox just added Jim Thome and Vazquez and there payroll currently stands at 75 mill (per ESPN http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/salaries?team=chw) and the Angels had a 2002 opening day payroll of 62 mill. The D-Backs had a payroll of 87 million( http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/2001/04/09/arizona_salary/ ) and excuse me for not feeling bad for the D-Backs when they traded RJ and Curt Schilling for what amounts to a bag of s*** then precced to hand out 4 year deals to the likes of Russ Ortiz. Thats called being stupid. I picked those 5 teams to show that there has been parody despite what you and some media types say.

 

ALSO before you try and blow up my point etc etc, try and do some reserch instead of just throwing statements out there about how the White Sox payroll must be over 100 mill(When infact it barely cracked 70) and how the Marlins traded off all of there big salery players(when most werent even on the 03 roster). You could have saved us all alot of time.

 

 

Alexander I'd quit this arguement while I was still ahead. And since you've been talking about the Brewers and their great farm system, I'll give you my two cents on it. The Brewers have great prospects coming up, but being the small market team, as soon as they're eligable for FA, they won't be able to keep them all. Big-Market teams will offer them huge contracts and the smaller teams can't match those, and then its back to rebuilding again. This is the same thing the As do. They trade all their star players away 1 year before they get their huge contracts for MLB ready cheap prospects. The same thing will happen to the Royals, remember a guy by the name of Carlos Beltran? He played for the Royals and was trade for cheap, prospects, only they weren't MLB ready, as shown by their 105 season loss. Small markey teams can only keep talent so long before a big market team offers a huge contract. If their was a salary cap, then that wouldn't happen and it would keep the game productive.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Alexander I'd quit this arguement while I was still ahead. And since you've been talking about the Brewers and their great farm system, I'll give you my two cents on it. The Brewers have great prospects coming up, but being the small market team, as soon as they're eligable for FA, they won't be able to keep them all. Big-Market teams will offer them huge contracts and the smaller teams can't match those, and then its back to rebuilding again. This is the same thing the As do. They trade all their star players away 1 year before they get their huge contracts for MLB ready cheap prospects. The same thing will happen to the Royals, remember a guy by the name of Carlos Beltran? He played for the Royals and was trade for cheap, prospects, only they weren't MLB ready, as shown by their 105 season loss. Small markey teams can only keep talent so long before a big market team offers a huge contract. If their was a salary cap, then that wouldn't happen and it would keep the game productive.

No, you quit while you were BEHIND because I proved you were (and still are) a hyprocrite. You again bring up the fact that small market teams wont be able to re-sign and keep their players but yet in another thread you want to dump Matt Clement salery on the Mariners and take Jeremy Reed from them and also you want to trade David Wells for Chris Young and other prospects. Is that not taking good young players away from small market teams? You advocate robbing smaller market clubs and dumping s***** contracts and old players on them BUT yet in this thread you argue against it. Which way are you going on this issue? You cant have it both way because your a Red Sox fan. Just say it for what it really is and stop sugar coating why you really want a cap.

[jimmycarter05]

No, you quit while you were BEHIND because I proved you were (and still are) a hyprocrite. You again bring up the fact that small market teams wont be able to re-sign and keep their players but yet in another thread you want to dump Matt Clement salery on the Mariners and take Jeremy Reed from them and also you want to trade David Wells for Chris Young and other prospects. Is that not taking good young players away from small market teams? You advocate robbing smaller market clubs and dumping s***** contracts and old players on them BUT yet in this thread you argue against it. Which way are you going on this issue? You cant have it both way because your a Red Sox fan. Just say it for what it really is and stop sugar coating why you really want a cap.

 

 

 

Ummmm, David Wells wants a trade so you might as well get something out of that, and with our abundance of starting pitching we might have to trade Clement for a CF, which is the position Jeremy Reed plays.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Ummmm, David Wells wants a trade so you might as well get something out of that, and with our abundance of starting pitching we might have to trade Clement for a CF, which is the position Jeremy Reed plays.

Thats your anwser? David Wells wants a trade so we should get something out of it? What leverage do the Red Sox have in any negotiation for Wells? Every team in baseball knows he wants out you add that to the fact hes 42 years old and a history of back problems. Whos going to give up good young players for that? Just in case you guys havent noticed Clement sucks and makes around 7 mill a year. If he didnt suck you guys wouldnt be so eager to dump him. With that said why do the Mariners trade a good young CF who was once a top prospect for Matt Clement?

[ORS]

ATG13, why are those in favor of a cap guilty of a "hidden" agenda, while your desire to protect the rights of big market teams is completely virtuous? If you can accuse some of not giving two-shits about the small market teams, then they can accuse you not giving two-shits about the big market clubs and are only interested in prolonging a system that allows your team to stay on top.

 

I've said it before, and I'll reiterate it in a modified form now. Competition in baseball exists both on and off the field. The current system provides for fair play on the field, but an unfair system in off the field management. It's only 50% fair. Reverse the roles and have it be fair off the field but unfair on. Now there is a cap but big market teams are allowed to take steroids and amphetamines, scuff and grease the ball, and the fences moved in when they were at the plate. Sound fair? That is essentially what the situation is off the field right now.

[jsinger121]

ATG13, guess what ya clements sucks at 9 million but pavano and wright suck at a combined 17 million so what is your damn point. wells will go for prospects to either the dodgers or padres. he is a lefty who won 15 games last season. he has started 30 plus games 9 out of the last 10 yrs. there are teams that would pay for that. plus his salary is 4 million base with incentives that bring it to 9. do some research before you go out and trash wells.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

ATG13, guess what ya clements sucks at 9 million but pavano and wright suck at a combined 17 million so what is your damn point. wells will go for prospects to either the dodgers or padres. he is a lefty who won 15 games last season. he has started 30 plus games 9 out of the last 10 yrs. there are teams that would pay for that. plus his salary is 4 million base with incentives that bring it to 9. do some research before you go out and trash wells.

I never said Pavano and Wright didnt suck. I also never said trade them for guys like Reed and Chris Young. Please dont put words in my mouth. Again if the Dodgers or Padres give you top flight prospects for David Wells (a pitcher who by the way is likely to retire after this season, who wants out of Boston so that takes away any leverge the Red Sox have because they have to move him and is 42 year old) then the people who are running those teams are morons.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

ATG13, why are those in favor of a cap guilty of a "hidden" agenda, while your desire to protect the rights of big market teams is completely virtuous? If you can accuse some of not giving two-shits about the small market teams, then they can accuse you not giving two-shits about the big market clubs and are only interested in prolonging a system that allows your team to stay on top.

 

I've said it before, and I'll reiterate it in a modified form now. Competition in baseball exists both on and off the field. The current system provides for fair play on the field, but an unfair system in off the field management. It's only 50% fair. Reverse the roles and have it be fair off the field but unfair on. Now there is a cap but big market teams are allowed to take steroids and amphetamines, scuff and grease the ball, and the fences moved in when they were at the plate. Sound fair? That is essentially what the situation is off the field right now.

I was throeing out the hidden agenda thing to people like Jimmy Caretr who speak out of both sides of their mouth. On top you mean world series on top? (5 different teams in the last 5 years).We are going to have to agree to disagree on this.

[ORS]

I was throeing out the hidden agenda thing to people like Jimmy Caretr who speak out of both sides of their mouth. On top you mean world series on top? (5 different teams in the last 5 years).We are going to have to agree to disagree on this.

Challenge the definition to avoid the topic? Is that the tactic? I think you know very well that "on top" refers to fielding a playoff caliber, legitimate WS contending team in this discussion. I also think you know as well as I do that it is unlikely that the Yankees win 8 straight division titles if there is a salary cap. Just like it is unlikely that the Red Sox win the Series in '04.

 

I have a question for you ATG13, what are you a fan of first, baseball or the Yankees? Please answer honestly.

[jimmycarter05]

I was throeing out the hidden agenda thing to people like Jimmy Caretr who speak out of both sides of their mouth. On top you mean world series on top? (5 different teams in the last 5 years).We are going to have to agree to disagree on this.

 

 

Come on man, if you're going to use me in your posts, please get my name right. Its C-A-R-T-E-R, not C-A-R-E-T-R.

[jsinger121]

wells wont retire if he is playing on the west coast. if he is still with the red sox by spring training he will most likely retire. the dodgers and padres have some interest in wells as i believe those are his likely destination points.

[a700hitter]

wells wont retire if he is playing on the west coast. if he is still with the red sox by spring training he will most likely retire. the dodgers and padres have some interest in wells as i believe those are his likely destination points.

He's bluffing. He is as big a whore as there is. He won't walk away from the guarantee plus incentives that can reach 8 million. He might be pissed, and he might dog it, but he won't walk away from the money.

[jsinger121]

i think he will walk away. he doesnt have as much money coming to him as manny who the red sox will call bluffing. wells will not play for the red sox next season. i will trade him to either the padres or dodgers and get prospects back in order to spin to another team to fill one of our holes.

[Cityofchampions33]

Or he could pull a Roger Clemens on us and retire, then sign with a west coast team later.

[jsinger121]

even if he retires he is technically under contract with the red sox for 2006. i believe he will not be able to pitch with any other team besides boston in 2006.

[26 to 6]

even if he retires he is technically under contract with the red sox for 2006. i believe he will not be able to pitch with any other team besides boston in 2006.

That is correct!!