Damon to the Yankees

[a700hitter]

And when did i say that there was a conspiracy to get Williams and Yaz out??

Don't you even remember what you write?

 

"Nomar should have just pulled a Teddy Ballgame and spit in the face of the Sox fans who he had served as a player for so long who wanted him out."

 

I have highlighted the portion pertaining to Williams. I sarcastically added the reference to Yaz. If this quoted statement was just poorly written, maybe you also need a remedial writing course.

 

As for the class of the current Yankee organization, what about the exile of Yogi Berra who has more rings than any Yankee in history? How long did that last? What about hiring slime balls to spy on a HOFer like Winfield? What about the Boss' current treatment of Torre and Zimmer. I heard Zimmer on the FAN recently. When asked about King George, he said that he wouldn't say hello to him if George walked into his house. He had more hard feelings against the Boss than Pedro. Does a classy organization holds grudges against old-time heroes and senior citizen coaches. More recently, the Yankees had a team of lawyers looking for grounds to void Giambi's contract when he started slowly this year. When he got hot, they called off the dogs. Hypocrites!

 

And just because it happened 70 years ago doesn't erase the shame of releasing Ruth. BTW the reconcilation with Ruth was motivated by a desire to fill the house. The Yanks never gave him a meaningful position after his retirement. They broke his heart. What a disgrace.

[Sox Fan on Cape]

Oh, okay. You're right. It was a conspiracy between the front office and the fans to run Nomar out of town. We wanted Ted Williams gone and Yaz too. You must be right. Organizations just love to get rid of icons that are big draws and good business. And the fans who gave him the biggest ovations of anyone on the team every single night, they clearly wanted him gone. You know how Nomar was offended by the fans and the front office, and you know when he made his decision to leave, and you know exactly how the fans felt about Nomar. You must be right. So, let's move on, and please start adding some interesting information to this Board or go torture some Met fans. Your baseless conjecture and illogical theories are boring and tiresome. Oooops, I forgot. I promised to use monosylabic words.

BTW Speaking of organizational mistreatment, let's not forget that Babe Ruth, the biggest sports icon of all and an American hero, who helped save the legitimacy of the game after the Black Sox scandal was released by the Yankees, who never offered him any meaningful position after retirement. That's class. That's gratitude.

 

a700hitter, I haven't involved myself in this "feud" until now. You are new here, and as such, maybe you don't know the members or how things work. But we tend to talk and discuss various topics, mostly sports with a main emphasis on the Red Sox and Yankees. Would you talk like you've posted to a friend or co-worker ? Specifically, I'm referring to your attempt to demean 26-6 for his contributions, logic and intellectual capacity. Have you based you comment ( quoted and placed in bold ) " please start adding some interesting information to this Board " on any reasearch at all ? I seriously doubt you have. Otherwise, you would have noticed that 26-6 has been a significant contributor to this site. Have you noticed The Talk Sox Official Awards thread ? I think not, because you would have seen that he is a runaway favorite in one category and a leading contender in a couple of others. He has also started and maintains a transaction thread that has been stickied. The reason it has been stickied is because it is a valuable resource. You accuse him of being illogical, I find that rather humerous. Given that fact that you're both discussing ancient history mostly based on conjecture and opinion ( as well as some convoluted factual references ) in a thread that is about the fact that Damon signed with the Yankees. Your comments don't relate to this thread ( maybe in an abstract way ). As far as 26-6's intellicual capacity, who are you to judge ? First, he's not writing a term paper for your evaluation, he's posting on a discussion board as a respected member. He has 1,600 + posts and you have 34 ( or there about ), your's have been strickly opinion. Opinion is fine, and its incouraged here, however, you cross the line when you state ( or infer ) that you opinion is fact and use it to attack someone on the site. In this case, you've implied that your age qualifies you to speak of the past in an authorative nature. I believe that I go back longer than you. My best friend in the eraly 60's was the son of the Red Sox short stop Ed Bressoud. I have been following the Red Sox ever since ( including The Cape League ). I'm not a Mod and I can't ban you, nor would I ( at this point ) I'm just telling you that personal attacks are not tolerated here. Continuing to do so would cause the thread to moved to "Fights and Crap", be ignored or confronted by other members, or your banning. I really hope that you can adjust some of your comments, because I do think that you have alot to contribute ( if I thought othwise, I wouldn't waste my time posting this ).

[He Hate Me]

a700hitter, I haven't involved myself in this "feud" until now. You are new here, and as such, maybe you don't know the members or how things work. But we tend to talk and discuss various topics, mostly sports with a main emphasis on the Red Sox and Yankees. Would you talk like you've posted to a friend or co-worker ? Specifically, I'm referring to your attempt to demean 26-6 for his contributions, logic and intellectual capacity. Have you based you comment ( quoted and placed in bold ) " please start adding some interesting information to this Board " on any reasearch at all ? I seriously doubt you have. Otherwise, you would have noticed that 26-6 has been a significant contributor to this site. Have you noticed The Talk Sox Official Awards thread ? I think not, because you would have seen that he is a runaway favorite in one category and a leading contender in a couple of others. He has also started and maintains a transaction thread that has been stickied. The reason it has been stickied is because it is a valuable resource. You accuse him of being illogical, I find that rather humerous. Given that fact that you're both discussing ancient history mostly based on conjecture and opinion ( as well as some convoluted factual references ) in a thread that is about the fact that Damon signed with the Yankees. Your comments don't relate to this thread ( maybe in an abstract way ). As far as 26-6's intellicual capacity, who are you to judge ? First, he's not writing a term paper for your evaluation, he's posting on a discussion board as a respected member. He has 1,600 + posts and you have 34 ( or there about ), your's have been strickly opinion. Opinion is fine, and its incouraged here, however, you cross the line when you state ( or infer ) that you opinion is fact and use it to attack someone on the site. In this case, you've implied that your age qualifies you to speak of the past in an authorative nature. I believe that I go back longer than you. My best friend in the eraly 60's was the son of the Red Sox short stop Ed Bressoud. I have been following the Red Sox ever since ( including The Cape League ). I'm not a Mod and I can't ban you, nor would I ( at this point ) I'm just telling you that personal attacks are not tolerated here. Continuing to do so would cause the thread to moved to "Fights and Crap", be ignored or confronted by other members, or your banning. I really hope that you can adjust some of your comments, because I do think that you have alot to contribute ( if I thought othwise, I wouldn't waste my time posting this ).

 

you sound exactly like a lawyer.

 

but yeah, it's pretty retarded arguing about this when this thread is about Damon.

[ahhchon]

a700hitter, I haven't involved myself in this "feud" until now. You are new here, and as such, maybe you don't know the members or how things work. But we tend to talk and discuss various topics, mostly sports with a main emphasis on the Red Sox and Yankees. Would you talk like you've posted to a friend or co-worker ? Specifically, I'm referring to your attempt to demean 26-6 for his contributions, logic and intellectual capacity. Have you based you comment ( quoted and placed in bold ) " please start adding some interesting information to this Board " on any reasearch at all ? I seriously doubt you have. Otherwise, you would have noticed that 26-6 has been a significant contributor to this site. Have you noticed The Talk Sox Official Awards thread ? I think not, because you would have seen that he is a runaway favorite in one category and a leading contender in a couple of others. He has also started and maintains a transaction thread that has been stickied. The reason it has been stickied is because it is a valuable resource. You accuse him of being illogical, I find that rather humerous. Given that fact that you're both discussing ancient history mostly based on conjecture and opinion ( as well as some convoluted factual references ) in a thread that is about the fact that Damon signed with the Yankees. Your comments don't relate to this thread ( maybe in an abstract way ). As far as 26-6's intellicual capacity, who are you to judge ? First, he's not writing a term paper for your evaluation, he's posting on a discussion board as a respected member. He has 1,600 + posts and you have 34 ( or there about ), your's have been strickly opinion. Opinion is fine, and its incouraged here, however, you cross the line when you state ( or infer ) that you opinion is fact and use it to attack someone on the site. In this case, you've implied that your age qualifies you to speak of the past in an authorative nature. I believe that I go back longer than you. My best friend in the eraly 60's was the son of the Red Sox short stop Ed Bressoud. I have been following the Red Sox ever since ( including The Cape League ). I'm not a Mod and I can't ban you, nor would I ( at this point ) I'm just telling you that personal attacks are not tolerated here. Continuing to do so would cause the thread to moved to "Fights and Crap", be ignored or confronted by other members, or your banning. I really hope that you can adjust some of your comments, because I do think that you have alot to contribute ( if I thought othwise, I wouldn't waste my time posting this ).

 

i see no problem with anything 700 has said. being on this board a long time and winning some talksox awards don't mean jack. 99% of the members on this board have yet to hit puberty and with the remaining 1% only half of them know anything about baseball.

 

it's simply a debate on how the redsox have treated nomar. everything 26 has said is absurd. he thinks nomar should have been offered a 10 year deal like jeter and a-rod. the yankees would NEVER offer jeter a 10 year contract if he was on and off the DL during the last 3 years of his previous contract. it's simple as that. nomar was treated well, he was jealous that he didn't get the massive contract and tried to play the cards differently, in the end he was traded and we won a world series without having to deal with him.

 

700, you're new to the site and i welcome you with open arms. all criticism was pretty constructive and i feel that you'll be a great contributor to the site.

 

remember, it's not the quantity of posts you have that matter, it's the quality of them.

 

john

[Sox Fan on Cape]

i see no problem with anything 700 has said. being on this board a long time and winning some talksox awards don't mean jack. 99% of the members on this board have yet to hit puberty and with the remaining 1% only half of them know anything about baseball.

 

it's simply a debate on how the redsox have treated nomar. everything 26 has said is absurd. he thinks nomar should have been offered a 10 year deal like jeter and a-rod. the yankees would NEVER offer jeter a 10 year contract if he was on and off the DL during the last 3 years of his previous contract. it's simple as that. nomar was treated well, he was jealous that he didn't get the massive contract and tried to play the cards differently, in the end he was traded and we won a world series without having to deal with him.

 

700, you're new to the site and i welcome you with open arms. all criticism was pretty constructive and i feel that you'll be a great contributor to the site.

 

remember, it's not the quantity of posts you have that matter, it's the quality of them.

 

john

 

John, I basically said the same thing. The thread went a little far astray getting into Babe Ruth, Ted williams, Yaz, etc. Then getting into the personal assaults and name calling. You have a different perspective and that's fine.

[ORS]

I'd like to echo John's greeting to 700 and say it's good to have another member here that was watching the team before I was born.

 

I would also like to say I think 26/6 deserved whatever tongue lashing he got here. In his little universe the Yankees fans/FO always honor their heroes, while the Sox fans/FO always run them out of town, and despite this not being true, he uses it to look down his nose at Sox fans. Therein lies the problem, his condescention suggests that he thinks being a Yankee fan is more virtuous than being a Sox fan. As long as he displays this kind of attitude here, on a Sox board, then whatever grief he gets from Sox fans are just desserts IMO.

[a700hitter]

Therein lies the problem, his condescention suggests that he thinks being a Yankee fan is more virtuous than being a Sox fan.

 

I've lived and gone to school deep behind enemy lines for many years. I have been exposed to this arrogant attitude for as long as I can remember. I have always called the Yankee fans on their illogiical belief that they were smarter, superior human beings because they root for the Yankees. I do remember getting called a dumbass last night. I stayed away from personal name calling. I may have said his arguments were stupid or illogical, and yes I did question his ability to read and write, but only because his line of argument was so absurd. I did, however, refrain from suggesting that he had a learning disability. 26 to 6 and the other Yankee fan agitators better get used to the fact that I will be a frequent contributor to this board. For 40 years on almost a daily basis, I have heard the best arguments by the most hardened Yankee fans and held my ground. 26 to 6 and the others had better be good, because I have been carving up guys like him for years.

[Sox Fan on Cape]

Welcome aboard ! Look forward to seeing your posts and perspecives.

From page one of : Introduce Yourself Forum.

 

Being pissed off at Yankees fans seems to be a popular trend. That's part of the rivalry and has intensified with the recent loss of Damon to the Yanks ( and the flood of new Yankees posters ) and is understandable. However, as long as a member is here to make legimate posts of information and opinions, he or she should not have to be degraded with insults. I'm not picking on one person, but in general, its not right to attempt to degrade someone because of their loyalty to a team, age, sex, etc. What's the next step, ban all non-Read Sox Fans, ban or ridicule anyone with a different point of view. I usually avoid this kind of crap, because I really don't have the time, interest, or desire. But, I will speak my mind, if I see something that I beleive is wrong. I've PM'ed 700 to explain my position. I still stand by what I said.

 

a700hitter and I have no problems per latest PM.

[yankeessuck013]

I am so sick of hearing from all the ESPN idiots on the radio talk about how this is the second coming of the Babe Ruth trade and we sold our souls to the devil to win it all in 2004 and now it's payback time, the curse is back! If this is payback, big friggin deal . There is no way in hell this comes close to a Ruthian collapse. Thanks for your 4 years Johnny, but sorry, you are replaceable.

 

Anyways, I don't think he'll fit in well with the Yankees at all. He's one of the loosest guys you'll ever find, and he takes pride in cultivating that image. When he has to rein in his behavior (a la Jason Giambi), he'll be a much different player, and his performance and production will suffer for it.

 

This is in addition to his noodle arm turning every gapper into a triple, or allowing the Doug Mirabellis of the world to go from first to third at will. (I know he's in the NL now, but I couldn't think of anyone slower!)

[riverside sluggers]

im with you there, the ultimate ass: Kevin Kennedy on the radio "sees the Sox finishing 3rd or even 4th behind the Orioles"

 

Give me a break Kennedy. Loved his quote also "If the season were to start tomorrow, theyd be in serious trouble." Well guess what is the season starting tomorrow? no its not. He should know a team's roster changes aplenty from Christmas to the end of spring training

[schillingouttheks]

I know Riverside, seriously lol. If the season started tomorrow, the Sox would have taken care of the holes a long ass time ago. People analyzing seasons before they even start or aren't even CLOSE to starting (3.5 months in this case), really start to piss me off.

[example1]

I know Riverside, seriously lol. If the season started tomorrow, the Sox would have taken care of the holes a long ass time ago. People analyzing seasons before they even start or aren't even CLOSE to starting (3.5 months in this case), really start to piss me off.

 

I imagine that if the season started tomorrow a lot of teams would be in trouble, given that 100 percent of players are NOT in florida or AZ right now, and most are at home hundreds, if not thousands of miles away from the rest of their teammates. There would be forefits all over the place,.... it would just be ugly if the season started tomrrow. Good thing the season starts in a predictable, rather than random, way.

[BronxBomber61]

I know Riverside, seriously lol. If the season started tomorrow, the Sox would have taken care of the holes a long ass time ago. People analyzing seasons before they even start or aren't even CLOSE to starting (3.5 months in this case), really start to piss me off.

 

I agree that it’s not time to make predictions yet but if Manny is traded and you fill SS and CF with the best options then 3rd place behind Toronto is definitely a possibility. The pessimists are bringing up the questions in the Yankee starters but I think Boston is in the same boat. Schilling may never be pre 2005 again, Beckett may break down trying to pitch at Fenway a full season. Wells could be gone, Clement is shaky for a full season and how will Wakefield be without Mirabelli.

 

I’m not crazy about Damon but I do think he will help offensively. He has never had as good a situational hitter behind him as Jeter. In CF he will cover more ground then Bernie but he does have a noodle arm. He seems really happy to be here and I won’t mind seeing Michelle in the stands on HD TV either.

[a700hitter]

The pessimists are bringing up the questions in the Yankee starters but I think Boston is in the same boat. Schilling may never be pre 2005 again, Beckett may break down trying to pitch at Fenway a full season. Wells could be gone, Clement is shaky for a full season and how will Wakefield be without Mirabelli.

Yankee fans praying for injuries. Interesting. Our pitching must be pretty strong. Schilling was completely healthy by the end of last year, and he showed he can still win the big game when needed by beating the Yankees in two big games down the stretch. He should match up with Unit. Both are aging, but both are still aces. Mussina has had two bad years in a row 12 and 13 wins with high ERA's, and the Red Sox have eaten him for lunch. Pavano has had 1 good year. His walk year in 2004. Jared Wright has won more than 5 games in a year once since 1999. Chacon is an unproven quantity. Pavano, Wright and Chacon are big questions. Beckett is a young stud who won 15 games last year and threw 97 mph gas in his final game. He also went into the lion's den and beat the Yankees in a World Series as a child. You are reduced to hoping he get injured. Wakefield has had some very good years without Mirabelli. The important thing is finding a catcher that can catch the knuckler. The pitch selection will not be a big mystery. Clement is not bad for a number 4 or 5.

[Pinstripe_Pride]

Anyways, I don't think he'll fit in well with the Yankees at all. He's one of the loosest guys you'll ever find, and he takes pride in cultivating that image. When he has to rein in his behavior (a la Jason Giambi), he'll be a much different player, and his performance and production will suffer for it.

 

I think it's kind of funny how Sox fans have this view of everyone in a Yankee uniform being uptight and proper. That is the image The Boss is trying to convey, and it's working, but I have a hard time believing there aren't a couple class clowns in the clubhouse. If indeed everyone is uptight, I think Damon's coming will be a breath of fresh air and not at all detrimental to his performance.

[a700hitter]

I think it's kind of funny how Sox fans have this view of everyone in a Yankee uniform being uptight and proper. That is the image The Boss is trying to convey, and it's working, but I have a hard time believing there aren't a couple class clowns in the clubhouse. If indeed everyone is uptight, I think Damon's coming will be a breath of fresh air and not at all detrimental to his performance.

I am sure that the Yankee clubhouse has its share of goofballs. I wonder how the other Yankees will react as Johnny Damon grabs every microphone and jumps in front of every camera with ared light. It should be interesting. On the Red Sox, he only had Millar as competition. ARod will be a much more formidable opponent.

[Pinstripe_Pride]

I am sure that the Yankee clubhouse has its share of goofballs. I wonder how the other Yankees will react as Johnny Damon grabs every microphone and jumps in front of every camera with ared light. It should be interesting. On the Red Sox, he only had Millar as competition. ARod will be a much more formidable opponent.

 

I see your point but who on the Yankees tries to grab the mike? I can't think of anyone, but I could be forgetting someone. If anything, I think Arod would love it if another big star came in and took the spot light. Arod has gotten so much criticism from the media that I think it will be good for him to have someone else taking the heat for a change.

[ORS]

I agree with you there Pinstripe. The "Idiot" won't fit into the cookie-cutter mold argument is a pretty weak one. Although, if I were a Yankee fan, his lust for camera time might be a cause for concern in a clubhouse where he's the 8th or 9th biggest star. I can easily see him pulling a Millar with his media time, being too honest and saying off the wall things to the detriment of the team in an effort to attract more attention. Although, some limelight off of the bigger names may allow them to focus on the game more. It could go either way, time will tell.

[a700hitter]

If anything, I think Arod would love it if another big star came in and took the spot light. Arod has gotten so much criticism from the media that I think it will be good for him to have someone else taking the heat for a change.

ARod is a shameless self promoter. Remember, his "A Magical Night in Pinstripes" stunt when he was selling inscribed balls commemorating his 3 HR game against the Angels. He had no one less than Michael Kay promoting that sales job. He courts the print and TV press and is resented by the other players for doing so. He really hasn't gotten bad press. If anything, it was due in large part to his good press relations that the press whored themselves out and robbed Papi of his MVP because of defense.

[riverside sluggers]

The pessimists are bringing up the questions in the Yankee starters but I think Boston is in the same boat. Schilling may never be pre 2005 again, Beckett may break down trying to pitch at Fenway a full season. Wells could be gone, Clement is shaky for a full season and how will Wakefield be without Mirabelli.

 

David Wells will be gone, not could be gone. The Padres or the Dodgers are the likely suitors. I think you had missed your thoughts on Papelbon (could be in starting rotation for 06), who impressed heavily from his debut start in july to his 4 scoreless innings of relief in the ALDS.

[Pinstripe_Pride]

He really hasn't gotten bad press.

Are you serious? I don't know how to respond to that, or where to begin.

 

Arod has gotten a ridiculous amount of criticism not only by the New York media, but by media from all over the country and some outspoken Red Sox players. Nothing he does is right in the eyes of the media. Some proof:

 

here's one

another one

 

I could go on but I'm not really in the mood to start a conversation about Arod, just trying to show that hopefully this ridiculous banter about Arod's stupid slap and how he is the most overrated player in baseball and how he cares too much about his image and how Arod is scum of the earth will all take a backseat to Damon, who will be the bigger story in '06. Damon seems to want the publicity and Arod I'm sure will be able to live with less of those stupid articles (not like he reads them, but they sure influence people's opinions, unfortunately).

[Pinstripe_Pride]

Damon will be sorely missed as a character. But his baseball talents are replaceable. The Red Sox will not miss him as much as many believe; the Yankees may eventually regret the deal.

 

The primary function of a leadoff man is to get on base. Batting average (an overrated statistic) is an indication of this talent, and the willingness and ability to draw a walk is the second one.

 

The combination of these two skills produces the on-base average (an underrated statistic) of a player. A top leadoff hitter's OBA hovers in the .400 territory. In 2005, Damon's was .366; teammates Ortiz, Ramirez, Mueller, Varitek and Graffanino did as well or better.

 

article most of you will probably enjoy

[schillingouttheks]

I agree with his talents are replaceable, but it's just the fact that Fenway's CF is so different than others and he got used to it. Guys like Crisp or Reed will need to get a feel for it before they get comfortable with it.

 

EDIT: I'm NOT saying that I'm glad he's gone, or that I wish we didn't sign him. I wish we did get him back, he's one of the premier lead off hitters in the game, no question. But now that he's officially gone, I'm looking forward and seeing what's out there. And now that I open my eyes to young potential studs like Reed and Crisp, I easily see suitable replacements.

[a700hitter]

I could go on but I'm not really in the mood to start a conversation about Arod, just trying to show that hopefully this ridiculous banter about Arod's stupid slap and how he is the most overrated player in baseball and how he cares too much about his image and how Arod is scum of the earth will all take a backseat to Damon

 

Please go on. Those links are from some crappy NJ paper with a circulation of about 10. Send me some links from the NY Post, NY Daily News or LI Newsday. Those are the guys that ARod takes to dinner and buys drinks, not the guys from some crappy Jersey paper. Remarks by Red Sox players made in Boston papers hardly qualifies as bad press. Sox players hate him, because he is a big press suck up. Read a "Tale of Two Cities" - the one by Masserotti and Harper. There's a good discussion about ARod's Press savvy behavior and the resentment it causes among the other players.

[ksushi]

Damon was of great value to the yankees, but only the yankees or this mystery team maybe but they're probably one of those Boras Division teams that don't play around here. Damon is a good ball player, and I'm not going to say anything to take that away from him. But given the right circumstances Damon is replaceable here in Boston. Devoting that kind of cash over that amount of years to a guy likely to fall apart when your FO is trying to build for four or five years down the road, would contradict the strategy currently being carried out, hence the three year offer.

 

Damon is great, the yankees will love him and the sox would have loved him... this year. You can't stray from strategy or else you never get where your trying to go, and thats why the sox didn't pursue him as hard as George did. As a Red Sox fan these are the exact signings I like to see. I want turmoil in the Yankee FO, this isn't a cashman signing, thats horse s***, this is a George signing.

[schillingouttheks]

I want turmoil in the Yankee FO, this isn't a cashman signing, thats horse s***, this is a George signing.

Exactly, George is also notorious for trying to break Sox fans' hearts and blocking the Sox from acquiring certain players (See: Jose Canseco).

[a700hitter]

You can't stray from strategy or else you never get where your trying to go, and thats why the sox didn't pursue him as hard as George did. As a Red Sox fan these are the exact signings I like to see. I want turmoil in the Yankee FO, this isn't a cashman signing, thats horse s***, this is a George signing.

I don't think this outcome had anything to do with the Red Sox FO sticking to their strategy. I will not be an apologist for the FO. They bungled the negotiations and got outmaneuvered by the Yankees FO. Sox management never even got their final offer on the table. They misread the situation, and they handled the whole thing in an incompetent manner. Now. they have their work cut out for them. If they don't recover from this and the team finshes 3rd or misses the playoffs, heads in the FO should roll.

[ksushi]

I think you're wrong. I think the sox put a price on Damon and were not willing to exceed that price. Damon was not worth 4/52 to anyone but the yankees and if you disagree, I dare you to try and show me how he was aside from talking about how marketable and handsome he was.

 

P.S. Johnny Damon is a very ugly mand and should have stuck with the facial hair.

[riverside sluggers]

My girlfriend says he now has chipmunk cheeks

[a700hitter]

I think you're wrong. I think the sox put a price on Damon and were not willing to exceed that price.

That forces us to conclude that the surprise by Lucchino and John Henry upon hearing the news was feigned, and that they were dishonest at the next day's press conference, because they did not give an impression that they would have refused to move off the 4/40 offer. I think the events of those two days, including the damage control press conference, indicates that they just dropped the ball.