According To Globe, Edgar Just Signed...

[ahhchon]

Originally posted by BoSox Rule@Dec 15 2004, 06:24 PM

Look at Jeter's and Renteria's defensive numbers.

 

They're both average.

 

 

OMG, they are shockingly similar.

 

and i don't KNOW WTF i was talking about when i said renteria was better than jeter offensively.. must had been a mess up in my brain. jeter is FAR superior to renteria offensively.

 

john

[yeszir]

I find it ironic that Renteria made the last out in the world series, only to come to the sox for the next season.

[schillingouttheks]

i was about to say that when john kept telling people y he wanted OC instead, i was gunna be on johns side and say, at least OC didnt make the last out of the WS

[RedSox4538]

Originally posted by ahhchon@Dec 15 2004, 06:11 PM

look at it this way. nomar signed for 1 year 8 mill. renteria signed for 4 years 40 mill.

 

that's 2 mill more a year for renteria than nomar.

 

nomar: average defence, way above average offence: 8 mill for ONE YEAR

 

renteria: good defence, average offence: 40 mill for FOUR years.

 

hanley is on the way up and is more than promising, this was a bad signing.

 

john

Consdering Hanley hasn't even touched AAA ball, and your projecting stardom?

I'm predicting a .325 AVG for Renteria with 15 HR's, because he's playing at Fenway

[DOrtiz4prez]

Noone thinks Renteria is any good at hitting. He was a key part on the arguably the best hitting team last year beside us. He batted leadoff on the CARDINALS. I think he is almost as good if not as good as Nomar at hitting.

 

Let the arguing against me begin!

[ahhchon]

Originally posted by DOrtiz4prez@Dec 15 2004, 09:54 PM

Noone thinks Renteria is any good at hitting. He was a key part on the arguably the best hitting team last year beside us. He batted leadoff on the CARDINALS. I think he is almost as good if not as good as Nomar at hitting.

 

Let the arguing against me begin!

his hitting abilities should never be mentioned in the same breath as nomars. it's not even close.

 

renteria could NEVER hit more than 25 HR's a year, he also couldn't hit .370, let alone have an over .450 OBP and 1.0+ OPS.

 

lets not overrate this guy cus we signed him.. oops wait, we signed him cus we overrated him. he's not BAD, but he's NOT 10 mill dollars a year good. nomar is getting paid 2 mill less than edgar this year and will hit 10 more hr's, have 20 more rbi's and have a higher OBP.

 

john

[BoSox Rule]

Edgar couldn't touch Nomar's average season with his 2003 career year.

[ahhchon]

Nomar:

 

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K

126 505 92 165 37 6.25 23 89 37 53

 

SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

11 3.6 .322 .370 .549 .919

 

Renteria:

 

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K

157 587 96 194 47 1 13 100 65 54

 

SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

34 7 .330 .394 .480 .874

 

mind you this is a small sample of renterias BEST year vs a large sample of nomars AVERAGE

 

i would say that his BEST season does touch nomars career average. but those are numbers calculated by me and i rounded up or down accordingly. i did it out fast so it's not very accurate but it's pretty damn close.

 

a healthy nomar decimates renteria offensively.

 

john

[sully777]

I don't understand why this 40million dollar deal is such a big deal. Sure to some degree it is overpaying, but in the same regard, we are signing probably the best FA shortstop on the market. Also since we lost Pedro, that free's up a ton of money, that really isn't going to get spent. The two top prospects on the Pitcher FA market are Clement and Perez, and they are lucky to go for over 8mil, Pavano made 8.5mil in his contract. So Varitek will cost us alot, but not as much as he is asking, because once Dec. gets late and nobody wants that kind of pricey catcher, his price will come down to earth. Plus nobody is talking about Lowe, who Wells takes over for, and while their contracts are similar, Wells needs to pitch damn well to get all that money. So the Sox have tons of money(World Series shares plus increased ticket prices) and went out and purchased a premiere shortstop, a position we needed to fill badly. Its no Nomar, but we lost Nomar so its a moot point, we got the best on the market. Renteria will be better at Fenway, a hitters park, and when he isn't facing ridiculous pitching staffs in his division (Prior, Zambrano, Wells, Clemens, Oswalt) he should average better numbers since the division is at least half the season. Plus does anyone remember the world series, Renteria by game 3 was the guy i was most scared of at the plate in that offense. The man was by far their best hitter, 5-15, against our staff, supposedly the best in the AL. So even though he had an off year, if that is the Renteria we are signing, I am pretty happy with it.

[DOrtiz4prez]

Thinking about how they're playing now Edgar is better. This year Nomar will never bat close to 370. Throw away the stats from 2000 and everything and think about now.

[elsrbueno]

Originally posted by ahhchon@Dec 15 2004, 10:11 PM

lets not overrate this guy cus we signed him.. oops wait, we signed him cus we overrated him. he's not BAD, but he's NOT 10 mill dollars a year good. nomar is getting paid 2 mill less than edgar this year and will hit 10 more hr's, have 20 more rbi's and have a higher OBP.

 

john

What John said is absolutely correct.

 

Edgar is good, but he's not $10 million a year good.

[sarasoxfan]

els is right, but john's logic is absurd..

 

are you saying we should now start basing someone's salary on what you think another will do in the coming season...huh...

 

 

nomar is getting two million less than edgar because nomar had a s***** season and is always injured.

 

 

How the hell do you know that nomar will do this year....and if he does the things you say he'll sign for more.

[ahhchon]

Originally posted by sarasoxfan@Dec 16 2004, 09:58 AM

els is right, but john's logic is absurd..

 

are you saying we should now start basing someone's salary on what you think another will do in the coming season...huh...

 

 

nomar is getting two million less than edgar because nomar had a s***** season and is always injured.

 

 

How the hell do you know that nomar will do this year....and if he does the things you say he'll sign for more.

read my other posts bro. if els is right how am i wrong considering he said i was right. lol

 

don't worry, i have 2 more finals today then i'm free. i'll have so many stats backing why renteria is worth only 6 mill, 7 mill TOPS.

 

john

[sarasoxfan]

fire away..good luck on your exams..

he's right and usually is becasue he makes sense..

 

you did not make sense comparing edgar to what nomar will, could or might do.

 

[ahhchon]

nomar had better numbers that renteria did last season. his offensive numbers were so much better it's not even funny. granted he only played 81 games the sample is smaller. but it's nomar. given 140+ games his offensive numbers would have decimated edgars. now that he's healthy, we'll see. i have no doubt in my mind that nomars numbers will be better than renterias numbers.

 

he had 9 hr's in 81 games, renteria had 10 in 140+ games. he had 41 rbi's for the cubs where renteria had 72. his OBP was greater by .039, slugging better by .055, and his OPS was greater by .091. this is playing while INJURED.

 

don't worry, i'll have much more after my finals..

 

how is els making sense? he says john is right and stated what i said. lol but i'm wrong. negative

 

john

[sarasoxfan]

because I dont make sense...

 

he's always right, anyway..

 

so now we are going to tailor stats by "sample size" and salary based on projected numbers. Oh and plus, "it's nomar"...I wasnt aware being nomar was a stat..

 

Well, in the past week we've added f***ing as atat thanks to crespo...now we have the "it's nomar"stat.

 

I cant wait to see what's in store for edgar and nomar after your exams.

[ahhchon]

where did i say we should sign him because he's nomar. look at the numbers i posted. do you think that what i say is definate, i know how large the sample sizes are and i also point them out.

 

look at nomars career average vs renterias best year.

 

that's the market, if nomar got 8 mill and you pay renteria 10 mill you're saying that he's worth 2 mill more than nomar. which could be true, but judged on past results it's not true, not even close.

 

how can you justify paying renteria 10 mill a year when polacio is only 3 mill per TOPS? the guy can defend just well and is not far behind hitting wise.

 

we'll see..

 

john

[sarasoxfan]

huh, no one said anything about signing him becasue he's nomar..he'edgar..and nomar is nomar...

 

um, er...maybe we should stop smoking the peace pipe.

 

You said.. "granted he only played 81 games the sample is smaller. but it's nomar. given 140+ games his offensive numbers would have decimated edgars."

 

I am happy about edgar and while els is right (lol, careful john your blood pressure) we overpaid a little I still think he's a good pick-up.

 

I await the post exam, explosion.

[ahhchon]

i thought you were saying something else when you pointed out that i said "it's nomar".

 

edgar is no doubt in my mind a good pickup, but we overpaid A LOT. how can you justify paying somone with an OBP of .327 10 mill per year? bellhorn is worth more than this guy and boy do i hate bellhorn and his K's.

 

john

[schillingouttheks]

WOW LMAO

 

i just came from about 3 threads, with you two debating and not smoking a peace pipe anymore

 

and now i come here

 

and of course, the only 2 usernames i see are

 

sarasoxfan

ahhchon

 

over and over and over down the page...to not make it an eye sore...im putting my post in the middle of a soon to be continued battle

 

w00t.

[sarasoxfan]

I cant remeber what we arguing about!

 

whatever it was, I know I was right and John was wrong.

 

I think Zenny ran off with the peace pipe.

[ahhchon]

Originally posted by sarasoxfan@Dec 17 2004, 10:14 AM

I cant remeber what we arguing about!

 

whatever it was, I know I was right and John was wrong.

 

I think Zenny ran off with the peace pipe.

that is so far from the truth it's not even funny. i've pulled out countless stats to prove my statement. everything backing me up. what have you done to back up your opinions, nothing. not one single stat.

 

baseball is a game of numbers my friend, you can almost completely build a good team by looking at statsheets.

 

john

[sarasoxfan]

would you agree that stats can be manipulated to say anything?

 

admit it...come on, you know that's true.

 

I'm nt saying your stats are wrong but it's true that you can pull out stats to paint nearly any picture you want, my friend. (like you do with yours)....

[ahhchon]

of course they can, but that's not what i'm doing. i'm taking edgars RAW stats and comparing them to the stats of another player (statsheet will be up, i'm not sure when, my brain is on fun vacation mode right now).

 

raw stats don't lie. they clearly show how edgar is being overpaid and is extremely overrated. he simply is an average hitter with above average defence.

 

john

[sarasoxfan]

i get the feeling it has been on vacation for awhile.

 

>

[ahhchon]

Originally posted by sarasoxfan@Dec 17 2004, 12:45 PM

i get the feeling it has been on vacation for awhile.

 

>

oooof, i got served..

 

actually, as a matter of fact it has. it's been on vacation for a week. finals week has been the worst week of my life. i'm glad it's over with. i'll be gone from talksox for a while. can't wait to hit the slopes!

 

i'll take some pictures for you guys, mwa ha ha

 

john

[sarasoxfan]

have fun.

 

we really are going to miss you...

 

 

PS: I hope it rains...

[ahhchon]

Originally posted by sarasoxfan@Dec 17 2004, 01:20 PM

have fun.

 

we really are going to miss you...

 

 

PS: I hope it rains...

dude, if there is a hell you would totally be there. why would you wish rain on my vacation. one that i will probably spend over a thousand on (my own hard earned money)..

 

i mean yeah, we don't get along here and there but i would never wish crap on you. weak dude, weak.

 

john

[elsrbueno]

John,

Where are you going skiing?

[sarasoxfan]

man, you are testy.

 

Have fun, and I hope it snows...

 

there hows that..