Pedro Martinez Set To Sign 3 Yr 40 Million With...

[element1151]

Originally posted by Yanksin2010+Dec 19 2004, 06:25 PM-->

QUOTE (Yanksin2010 @ Dec 19 2004, 06:25 PM)

[BoSox Rule]

Originally posted by element1151+Dec 19 2004, 10:55 PM-->

QUOTE (element1151 @ Dec 19 2004, 10:55 PM)

Originally posted by Yanksin2010@Dec 19 2004, 06:25 PM

[element1151]

Thanks to explaining to me the thought process of the Yankee fans.

[empireII]

No doubt in my mind pedro is in the top 3 for most dominant pitchers ever. Number one is aruguable obviously.

[yeszir]

Originally posted by empireII@Dec 19 2004, 11:57 PM

No doubt in my mind pedro is in the top 3 for most dominant pitchers ever. Number one is aruguable obviously.

This is the most correct statement of the thread. It is definitely arguable as to whether or not pedro is the all-time greatest, but he could very easily be classified as top 3. Lets leave it at that. Top 10 all time are extraordinarily dominant, so its not like you'd be insulting Pedro by calling him #2 or eve *shock* #4.

[Yanksin2010]

Originally posted by yeszir+Dec 20 2004, 03:11 PM-->

QUOTE (yeszir @ Dec 20 2004, 03:11 PM)

[schillingouttheks]

wow...did a yankee fan and a red sox fan just agree on something? lol.

[Yanksin2010]

Originally posted by schillingouttheks@Dec 20 2004, 07:06 PM

wow...did a yankee fan and a red sox fan just agree on something? lol.

Wouldn't get used to it if I were you.

[schillingouttheks]

wasnt planning on it...

[Yanksin2010]

Originally posted by schillingouttheks@Dec 20 2004, 07:12 PM

wasnt planning on it...

Good idea.

[schillingouttheks]

lol i love how we can get off topic so quickly.

[CrespoBlows]

To the person who said Nolan Ryan was overrated

 

HE HAS 1700 more SO then any other pitcher. Overrated? Hardly.

 

To the people who believe Pedro was the most dominating pitcher of all time

 

Incorrect, Pedro is a unbelivable pitcher, but he isn't Bob Gibson, Sandy Koufax, or Walter Johnson.

 

Baseball is more than stats, it's about scrappiness, and toughness, people who battle 100%. Pedro was definatly not one of these guys.

 

Pedro or Gibson I'll examine

 

Gibson pitched a CG 2 hitter against the Sox in game 7 on two days rest. Pretty good huh? Now factor in that he did it with a broken leg, won more than 300 games, and threw a 102 MPH fastball, was beloved by all his teammates and all of St. Louis.

 

Pedro has never gone on 2 days rest, he benifets greatly due to the nowadays pussy pitcher. He goes on 5 days rest everyday, and is an injury prone, pampered superstar. If I were to have a team to go win I wouldn't Pedro on it, even on his hayday. A guy who abanoded his team during Game 6 of the ALCS this year. Pedro is a dominant pitcher but the best ever? No, not even close.

[BoSox Rule]

Uh, yeah, it is close. He is the most dominant pitcher ever.

 

Adjusted ERA+

1. Pedro 167

2. Grove 148

3. Johnson 146

 

So, Pedro Martinez is 67% better than the average pitcher. Grove at 48% is not even close. I don't care what Gibson did with a broken leg, or how fast he threw, add that to the fact that he DIDN'T win 300 games which is something you said he did.

 

Pedro is the only pitcher in the history of baseball to be in the top 3 in H/9, BAA, ERA+, WHIP, W/L% and baserunners/9 for a career.

 

Pedro has a career K/B of 4.31. Mr Control Greg Maddux is at 3.35.

 

Gibson pitched with a healed broken leg. OK. Pedro came out of the bullpen in the 1999 ALDS and pitched 6 no-hit innings when his season should've been over. Then a shutdown the Yankees in his next start.

[stevece80]

Nolan Ryan was quite overrated. He was a compiler who should be recognized for his longetivity, but he isn't one of the 25 greatest pitchers of all time. Pedro Martinez has a career ERA+ of 167, Ryan bested that figure in a season just once, in the strike-shortened 1981 season. In a full season (30+ starts), the closest Ryan got to that total was in 1977, when he posted an ERA+ of 141. He also walked 204 batters in 299 innings. In 1987, his ERA+ was 142, but his home ERA was 1.2 runs better than his road ERA, so take it for what it's worth.

 

Current pitchers who have a higher career ERA+ than Ryan:

 

Brad Radke

Bartolo Colon

Freddy Garcia

Wilson Alvarez

Al Leiter

Andy Pettitte

Matt Morris

Derek Lowe

 

Nearly equal:

 

Tim Wakefield (109)

Pat Hentgen (109)

David Wells (110)

 

All those pitchers are good pitchers. None of them are Hall Of Famers. The only way any of them make the HOF is if they compile 300 wins.

 

Ryan was overrated, always will be as long as people only look at the 300+ wins and his strikeout record. The only offensive player I'd say is similar would be Dave Kingman, had he played until he was 46 and broken Aaron's record, there would be plenty saying he's one of the greatest ever, when in fact he was a BA and OBP sinkhole, that had quite a bit of pop.

[stevece80]

Wow, CB's post on Pedro is even dumber than some of the crap I've seen on Netsports.

 

Anyone with an agenda can try to distort reality to try to prove not a point, but put forth a childish hatred towards someone they've never met. I'm sure you could pitcher 200+ innings over the course of a season, right?

[ahhchon]

nice to see another pedro lover on the boards.

 

john

[BoSox Rule]

Also, you can talk about Gibson pitching with a broken leg all you want. Pedro's been doing this since 2002 with one shoulder. And that one shoulder isn't the one he throws with.

[ahhchon]

gibson also pitched on a higher mound and pedro is pitching in a hitters era

 

john

[sarasoxfan]

I'm glad he left. He was great but he will continue to decline and I'm glad it wont be here.

 

Gibson was soo muich better it's hard to believ you guys are even haviing this conversation.

 

apparently the mound isnt the only thing high around here.

[CrespoBlows]

Wow, CB's post on Pedro is even dumber than some of the crap I've seen on Netsports.

 

Anyone with an agenda can try to distort reality to try to prove not a point, but put forth a childish hatred towards someone they've never met. I'm sure you could pitcher 200+ innings over the course of a season, right?

 

Ryan pitched 27 years in his career, so what if you only put the numbers in his hayday? By the time Pedro is done, you won't be having this arguement. He's no longer a top flite pitcher in the game..

[CrespoBlows]

I don't believe Pedro being a babied is a false accuastion

[BoSox Rule]

Guys, Pedro > Gibson

 

It isn't even close. Don't take the numbers at face value. Gibson pitched in a pitchers era, in a pitchers park, on a 15 inch high mound. Pedro is pitching in a hitters era, in a hitters park, on a 10 inch high mound.

 

Pedro's career ERA+ is 167, the best ever

Gibson's career ERA+ was 127, 41st

 

Pedro's best ERA+ year is 285, the best ever

Gibson's best ERA+ year was 258, and came within 90 points of that, never again.

Pedro came within 90 points of his best year 5 times.

 

ERA

Pedro: 2.71, 77th

Gibson: 2.91, not ranked

 

W/L%

Pedro: .705, 3rd

Gibson: .591, not ranked

 

Runners/9:

Pedro: 9.25, 3rd

Gibson: 10.69, not ranked

 

H/9

Pedro: 6.84, 3rd

Gibson: 7.60, 38th

 

K/9

Pedro: 10.40, 3rd

Gibson: 7.22, 48th

 

ERA+

Pedro: 167, 1st

Gibson: 127 41st

 

Don't be idiots because of your obvious hatred for Martinez.

[stevece80]

And Ryan bested Pedro's 2004 in 3 out of 27 seasons. Amazing. Pedro pitched 244 innings this season, Ryan did that exactly once at age 32 or older.

 

Sandy Koufax was a babied pussy as well. I mean, the damn wimp retired because he had an owie on his elbow.

[CalvnHobs6]

Wow, Pedro haters. I do believe BoSox Rule just shat on you.

I still love Pedro out of respect of one of the best ever.

[Tek04]

Why is this thread even still going?

 

Pedro is with the mets, the team all pitchers go at their twilight, to slowly unwind, get worse, and then eventually, retire.

[stevece80]

Like Tom Seaver, David Cone, and Bret Saberhagen? Oh, that's the Red Sox, my bad.

[Tek04]

Like Tom Seaver, David Cone, and Bret Saberhagen? Oh, that's the Red Sox, my bad.

 

great you named 3 people

[stevece80]

great you named 3 people

 

Great, you couldn't name 3 that did the same with the Mets.

[Tek04]

Great, you couldn't name 3 that did the same with the Mets.

 

hmm i should have just said players in general instead of pitchers, but Tom Glavine sticks out like a soar thumb, not to mention John Franco who has always been with the mets and has always sucked

 

Bobby Bonilla, Vince Coleman, Mo Vaughn, and Roberto Alomar all come to mind for players who were once good, but come to the mets to suck

[BoSox Rule]

hmm i should have just said players in general instead of pitchers, but Tom Glavine sticks out like a soar thumb, not to mention John Franco who has always been with the mets and has always sucked

Yeah, John Franco has always sucked 424 saves, a 2.74 ERA, and 139 ERA+, and 8.35 h/9.

 

Tom Glavine? Yeah, horrible year he had this year http://www.talksox.com/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif