Garciaparra And Johnson Linked In Talks (ny Times)

[ACL BoSox]

The expected pursuit of Randy Johnson has officially intensified with the Boston Red Sox contemplating a two-part deal in which they would send Nomar Garciaparra to the Chicago Cubs to secure prospects and then use those young players as part of a package to acquire Johnson from the Arizona Diamondbacks.

 

An American League team executive, who has been briefed on the trade discussions, said the Red Sox were talking with at least one team about using Garciaparra as a chip to help land the 40-year-old Johnson, who is a five-time Cy Young award winner. And that team is the Chicago Cubs, whose farm system is rich in pitching.

 

Garciaparra is a longtime star in Boston, but last winter the Red Sox were prepared to replace him at shortstop with Alex Rodriguez, who was with the Texas Rangers and is widely considered the best player in baseball. The Red Sox would have sent Manny Ramirez to Texas for Rodriguez, then shipped Garciaparra to the Chicago White Sox for Magglio Ord??ez. But after the Rodriguez-for-Manny Ramirez trade talks famously crumbled, Boston ended up keeping Garciaparra, who was stung by all the maneuvering. Rodriguez, of course, ended up with the Yankees.

 

Now the Red Sox are trying to outdo the Yankees for another future Hall of Fame player in Johnson and they see the Cubs as a possible conduit for making it happen. If the Red Sox cannot make a deal with the Cubs, they will try the same approach with other teams. The lightly regarded Rey Ord??ez currently plays shortstop for the Cubs because Alex Gonzalez has a broken wrist. The 30-year-old Garciaparra, who missed much of this season with an Achilles' tendon injury and is in the last year of his contract, would be a huge upgrade.

 

Johnson said on Monday that he would be amenable to waiving his no-trade clause if it benefited the Diamondbacks and if he went to a team with a strong chance of winning a World Series title. He said there is no list of teams, but the Yankees and the Red Sox are definitely interested and the Cubs were thought to be, too, although they may now be turning their attention to Garciaparra.

 

Whether Johnson would accept a trade to the Red Sox is uncertain. While Johnson and Boston's Curt Schilling combined to lead the Diamondbacks to a championship in 2001, it is believed that Johnson prefers to keep the more effusive Schilling at a distance. Still, Schilling has left several recruiting messages for his former teammate.

 

"There's a reason why I changed my number," Johnson said. It was not clear if he was joking.

 

Boston General Manager Theo Epstein declined to comment about Johnson through Peter Chase, a team spokesman. Similarly, Yankees General Manager Brian Cashman said he had no conversations with the Diamondbacks on Tuesday.

 

NY Times 7/14/04

Jack Curry

 

Now the Cubs are in the mix, quite interesting. Although I'd still prefer Nomar to Pittsburgh for Benson & Wilson.

[trot4mvp]

Nomar to Pittsburgh for Wilson and Benson WILL NOT happen. In fact, Nomar could not be traded for either player straight up. Wilson is one of the hottest hitters in the National League and Benson could fetch much better from other teams. What interest would the Pirates have in bringing Nomar to Pittsburgh? One of the Wilsons (I think Jack?) is already a mainstay at SS, and they have absolutely no reason for a 3 month rental. That is the most ludicrous rumor I've heard yet.

[elsrbueno]

I agree with Trot...makes no sense for Nomar to go to Pittsburgh. They're not gunna win in 04, and Nomar's going to be a free agent.

 

The Cub/White Sox rumors make more sense.

[elsrbueno]

This story from ESPN seems very biased toward the Yankees....and it's more about the Yankees than Johnson...but I figured I'd share it anyway.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/stor..._bob&id=1840061

[ACL BoSox]

What the hell?

 

I thought Schilling and Johnson were good friends. When did this start?

[elsrbueno]

ACL,

Depending on who you talk to....They either say Johson/Schilling are best friends, or that they NEVER really got along that well....

 

I don't know which report to believe, honestly.

[trot4mvp]

I believe what the players actually say, and Schill has said all along that him and RJ are buddies. Anything else I read about "sources close to RJ" or "people familiar with RJ's thinking" is absolute rubbish, and RJ proved them all wrong the other day at the All Star press conference when he said he WAS interested in being traded and WOULD go to any team that would properly compensate the DBacks, contrary to what these "close sources" had previously been reporting.

[elsrbueno]

Trot, I agree with you for the most part. Most of the time, these "close sources" turn out to be full of B.S.

 

From what Johnson is saying, though, it seems the Yankees players are heavily recruiting:

 

about A-Rod "Maybe he'll take me out to dinner, or watch my kids so I can take my wife out to dinner"

 

About Schill "He must leave a lot of messages" (implying perhaps he hasn't heard).

 

Regardless, I doubt Johnson dislikes Schilling enough to veto a trade to Boston for that reason. I think it's gunna come down to what deals Arizona can actually make, and it seems like the Yankees or Red Sox are going to HAVE to include a third team in order to make something happen.

 

I think all this talk of Johnson preferring the Yankees started out of a New York paper....probably not a coincidence.

[trot4mvp]

Exactly...my perception is that this guy just wants to win, and he is fully aware that he greatly enhances any team he joins, to the point where he can push them into the playoffs and beyond. Boston, NY, Anaheim, Chicago...I'm not sure it matters to him. It really comes down to what AZ can get for him.

[CrespoBlows]

Randy Johnson has reportly said he will not go to the Yankees, because he doesn't believe they have the talent to make a swap.

[NomarMannyOrtizzle]

where did u hear this? SWEET

[trot4mvp]

Crespo...do you have a source for this info???

 

You could argue that the Sox don't have the resources either, and they've supposedly been in talks with the Chicago teams for prospects....my question is, what is stopping the Yanks from pulling a similar 3-way deal? Stay tuned...

[elsrbueno]

Crespo,

I think we're going to have to pretty much take EVERYthing we hear with a grain of salt, because ESPN is reporting that Johnson wants to go to the Yankees, and ONLY the Yankees.

 

ESPN is out of Connecticut, so I don't blame them for being biased.

 

The Red Sox don't have the prospects to make a deal happen either....otherwise they wouldn't be talking about moving Nomar.

 

Does it piss anyone else off that every time Nomar gets comfortable again they bring up trade rumors? He was just starting to get back into a groove....now who knows how he'll produce.

 

I hope this deal either gets killed soon, or goes through soon. For Nomar's sake, he can't keep going through this crap.

[trot4mvp]

I absolutely agree...just went people were starting to back off, the pressure has been piled back on him to produce. I can't help but to feel sorry for the guy! Alas, baseball is a business, and Nomar knows that all too well. Frankly, I just want to see this team win, with or without Nomar or Randy Johnson. JUST WIN BABY!

[CrespoBlows]

Check out the flybys on foxsports.com that's where I heard it.

[CrespoBlows]

ESB,

 

The yankees don't have a spare part to deliever to get top prospects. Hell would freeze over before Steinbrenner trades Jeter to the Cubs for prospects. So how do the Yankees get Johnson? Offer to pay all of the salary? Sure, but that's probably not too much a concern if they can get top flight prospects. That's not coming from NY at all. The Angels owner Moreno, said he will not part with the top level prospects nessicary to obtain Johnson. So what options does we have left? The Mets? Would they be willing to give up David Wright or Scott Kazmir? Probably not, considering the DBacks would want both or 1 plus another very good one. The Red Sox have a very good shot at landing Johnson because if they do give up Garciaparra they would get the prospects in order to get Johnson. But really, what are the chances of a trade like this happening? Small, very small if not any chance at all.

[elsrbueno]

Crespo,

I'm just saying....not everything you hear is true.

 

I agree that the Sox have a shot at getting him...but it's a sticky situation and even if the Sox can work day and night to agree on a trade...Johnson could veto it.

 

Keep in mind, that Steinbrenner will do EVERYTHING in his power to prevent a Randy Johnson in Boston scenario. I don't know how he'll do it, but the Red Sox WILL NOT acquire Johnson or any impact player without the Yankees at least trying to stop it from happening.

 

As I've said before, he's done it before...

[CrespoBlows]

Steinbrenner can try anything he wants, but he won't be able to make the trade because all he has is overpriced talent, with s***** prospects.

[elsrbueno]

You're underestimating the power of money. Steinbrenner will get a pitcher before July 31st.

[trot4mvp]

Crespo...I have to agree with ESB. From the looks of it, the only team with that is willing to move high quality prospects in exchange for a late summer rental would be the Cubs or White Sox, and enough rumors have been swirling for and against this rumor that give it any credibility. Money buys baseball players, and Georgie Porgie has plenty of it...remember the Raul Mondesi, Jeff Weaver, etc. deals? They got alot for nothing...I'm not saying AZ will be suckered the same way, but I wouldn't underestimate Steinbrenner's ability to bring RJ to NY (or prevent him from coming to NY).

[elsrbueno]

I think it seems more and more likely that no deal will happen. I don't think the Red Sox REALLY are trading Nomar, I think there's a lot of speculation happening.

 

Unless Anaheim is bluffing (which is possible), I don't think a deal will happen. Arizona isn't desperate to move Randy, and unless something big happens...it just doesn't seem that the teams with the talent to make a trade are willing to do so.

 

Call me crazy, say what you will. My prediction: Randy Johnson stays in the dessert. And honestly, as long as he doesn't end up in pinstripes, I'm OK with that.

[trot4mvp]

I think I'm starting to agree with you...after all, going into the break, the Sox already had the best ERA in the AL...

[elsrbueno]

Yep.

 

They could use another solid reliever (who knows when Williamson will be back?), and it kills me to see Millar playing the outfield. They need to fix that, quickly. Millar should be a cheerleader (bench coach, anyone?) but he simply DOES NOT cut it defensively in the outfield. Kapler's fine...but NO MORE MILLAR out there....If you have to trade for someone better, do it. But I don't want to see him out there.

[NomarMannyOrtizzle]

if they don't get Johnson, they need to get another Quality #3 Pitcher, and a bat. Carlos Delgado, Mike Sweeney, names such as that. Kris Benson, BARRY ZITO (QUITE POSSIBLE, I THINK ) Matt Clement should all be pitchers to consider, especially Zito, who probably will be traded this offseason

[CrespoBlows]

Originally posted by trot4mvp@Jul 16 2004, 07:15 AM

...remember the Raul Mondesi, Jeff Weaver, etc. deals?

The jays were looking to dump Mondesi for nothing, because he was a headcase, expensive, and a young Frank Catalantto was looking to take over. The A's and Tigers defintaly got the better of the deal than the Yankees. The Tigers got Carlos Pena, and the A's got Ted Lilly. The yankees were stuck with Weaver.

[ACL BoSox]

THE HANGUP: It sounds like the perfect three-way deal.

 

Boston trades shortstop Nomar Garciaparra to the Cubs, Arizona sends pitcher Randy Johnson to the Red Sox and the Diamondbacks get pitching prospects from the Cubs as they rebuild after this disappointing season.

 

That leaves one important part out of the equation: How do the Cubs make room for Garciaparra by dealing shortstop Alex Gonzalez?

 

Earning $5.75 million this season, Gonzalez would cost another club around $2.5 million for half a season.

 

Under president Andy MacPhail's administration, the Cubs haven't agreed to pay a large part of anyone's contract to peddle them. So it's hard to predict they would change that routine for Gonzalez.

 

On the other hand, if the Cubs are willing to pick up the rest of Garciaparra's $11.5 million this season, it would show a willingness to add to a 2004 budget that's already around $90 million.

 

 

Chicago Sun Times 7/16/04

 

First the reports came out of NY, now we're getting news out of Chicago that they are DESPERATE for a SS. Still however, the White Sox really want Nomar, but the Cubs have the prospects needed to get Johnson.

[elsrbueno]

An article updated today:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1840380

 

OK, ESPN's been saying we don't have a shot from the beginning, but now the Red Sox seemingly have given up (according to the article) and the Cubbies are expected to go after Cabrera.

[schillingouttheks]

responding to above, as much as we would like to listen to espn, they are based out of bristol, CT, YANKEE country. they dont think the red sox have a chance because they are yankees and have said it before and they have been wrong about many things, before u go jumping all over me about this, i do agree somewhat with espn, and to prove it look at my comments below. and RJ has SAID that hes interested in these teams, not there have not been any REPORTS about this, but reports in response to what he said. i go by whatever comes out of the players mouths, not what reporters like to say.

 

okay people, as much as we would love RJ here, there are many other teams RJ said he is interested in:

 

REDSOX: PLEASE GOD

 

YANKEES: arizona has reportedly said that the NYY dont have the prospects that they are looking for, so thats a good thing for us...but i dont get whats keeping them from a 3 way deal like us...thank god theyre not doing that tho

 

ANGELS: a possible bluff, but after the disappointing performances by their pitchers, especially colon, they would be willing to pay his contract.

 

CARDINALS: they need pitchers, they have batters. although espn sportscenter reports that they do not have enough money to sign him.

 

CUBS: interested, would be willing to pay for RJ if they are willing to pay for nomar now, but wouldnt get both. i tihnk the cubs are only being talked about because they are willing to give prospects to arizona for the redsox because they want nomar at SS, the position they are weak at.

 

WHITESOX: i doubt this will happen though. its more like the whitesox interested in him than RJ interested in the white sox.

 

THE DBACKS!!!: truthfully, i wouldnt be surprised if he stays in the desert. he would like to play near home, and he only leaves arizona if they get benefited, which is a long shot considering hes RANDY JOHNSON.

 

there are many possibilities for this guy, as much as i would love to and we all would, we just cant get our hopes up too high. and besides, i agree with everyone else, it wouldnt be so bad if we dont get him, as long as he doesnt end up in pinstripes, which the yankees dont have a prayer for. even though money speaks loud, they just dont have the prospects, steinbrenner can try anything he wants, but when it comes down to it, hes just goign to have to accept that for once, he just doesnt have the talent (HAHA LMAO AT U) that the d'backs are looking for.

[elsrbueno]

Nomah,

This situation will come down to 2 things (in my opinion):

 

How desperate Arizona is to unload Johnson: (doesn't seem like they're too desperate....why would they be?)

 

How desperate Johnson is to leave Arizona: This seems more likely. Last night the 'pen blew a win for him when he came out of a game where he had a shutout going. That frustrates ANYONE. If Randy asks out, Arizona has said they'll move him, and Randy is in complete control here. He can say "I want to go to the Yankees, please trade me to the Yankees," and about 10 minutes later the deal will be done....probably for Navarro and Cano.

 

I WANT to agree with you, but I just can't. I have a VERY bad feeling that before too long, Randy will be in pinstripes. Why would Randy come to Boston? we don't have a championship team. White Sox? nope. Cubbies? Nah...no offense.

 

The Yankees are in the hunt every year, GUARANTEED. He'll pitch in the playoffs with the Yankees, and he has the best supporting cast available. Randy has already proven he can beat the empire (in 2001) why not just take the sure-thing?

[schillingouttheks]

yeah, this blows. i swear if randy ends up in pinstripes i will kill him, or maybe not but i will be very upset. from what schilling has said about them being friends i think somewhat benefits the sox, and i just hate steinbrenner, i hate him, i ahte him i hate him. he gets in the way every time just like his stomach gets in the way of him fitting through a doorway.