Hugh2

Oh he's big league ready because he's been hitting one level up from A ball for 1 month? He's still two levels below MLB. Remember when JBJ crushed AA for a couple months and everyone thought he was ready? turns out he needed a few more years. I doubt AB still has that much developmental time left and I think he is a great offensive talent, one of the most talented prospects in the game but 1 month crushing AA ball doesn't mean he's MLB ready.

I don't necessarily believe that they think it was the plan all along, I just thought they moved Swihart off position to quickly. It's not like he didn't have any potential behind the plate, he was a top rated catcher in all of baseball because they thought he would be an elite hitting catcher with average to better defense. I don't think anyone thought he would ever touch Vasquez defensively but I it's not like the kid completely failed at the MLB level. I thought he did pretty well all things considered, barely having any time above AA ball and brought up to the majors. People forget that defense is a progression and has a learning curve as well, just look at players like Xander Bogaerts who really grew into the short stop position. He has a ton more value to this team behind the plate, and if it's not on the team then it might be on the trading block. I just thought the moved him off position way to quickly, but I get it they needed a LFer and Vasquez was ready and the staff was struggling. Perhaps they liked Swiharts bat so much that they were comfortable moving him to LF on this team. I admit, my opinion has a taste of hindsight to it, and just because Swihart has a lot more value to other teams behind the dish that doesn't mean he doesn't have a ton more value to this team in LF with Vasquez behind the plate. Still, my opinion is they rushed him off the position. It is what it is I suppose, I'm just happy Leon is producing lately.

ummm, it's because his skills have diminished. What you're talking about would have nothing to do with his rating. Now I have confidence he will improve and get back to or near what he was but he's clearly not there now.

That's such a naive way of looking at it, guys who have ranked around 25 get between 1-2 million every year. There is no way a 16 year old from latin american is taking 300K just because he wants to play for who happens to be your favorite team. That's a package deal right there. Literally the Sox nabbed one more guy in the top 30 last year than the Yankees did this year. Is that were you draw the line between ok/not ok? If the MLB is going to come down hard on the Sox for this then they should make sure they are taking it out of the game across the board otherwise. They really need to just end all this and have a international draft already.

I generally agree with that statement but it still is true that compared to the other catchers in the league his pitch framing skills aren't nearly as elite as they were last year.

The second part I definitely agree with, and I don't totally by my own story on CV being rushed as I'm aware it's speculation. That's really my number 1 gripe was moving Swihart off position and moving him off of catcher so quickly. Hindsight is also 20/20, if Swihart never got hurt and continued to bloom in LF as a MLB player it might not look so bad. I still think the Sox should have left him behind the dish but I can't use the fact that he got injured in LF in hindsight.

I agree but I'm having a hard time seeing what exactly they did to be more "blatant" about it. The only thing I see (and it's pretty damning actually) is the Sox signed higher end talent that anyone else last year under restrictions. They had zero business being anywhere near able to sign Muzziotti and Guamaro. No one came close to signing guys that good. But that looks to be exactly what the Rays are doing this year by locking up Diego Infante, and Roimer Bolivar. There's just no other precedent for guys that talented signing for 300K or less (correct me if I'm wrong here).......other than the Red Sox doing it last year.

I agree, I'm making an assumption but i don't think it's an assumption or a far fetched opinion that they moved Swihart off of the catching position too soon. The pitching was pretty bad in the beginning of the season and I think the F.O. rushed CV back. And it's also fact that Vasquez defensive play has slipped this year. Also, perhaps I was lazy in constructing my argument. Maybe they have not given up on Swihart as a catcher and moved him off the position as a short term fix for the MLB roster. IDK, but I think most organizations would have given him much more time to develop behind the plate. This is a kid who was the top ranked prospect behind the dish last year and then after being rushed to the majors last year was given up on after what was it.....8 games????

Buchholz is going to be 32 in a month, he's not young for a baseball player by any means. Many pitchers never make it out of their 20's, it only seems like they do because you recognize the names of the guys who stick around.

I thought the Sox rushed CV back this year and panicked by giving up on BS too quickly. First off, even though he's been above average Vasquez defense has been nowhere near the elite level of play it was last year. This makes his lack of bat stand out much much more. The Sox gave up on Swihart way too soon, and even if you could justify a move down to AAA they should have let him continue develop behind the plate. He might not be injured right now if that was the case. I highly doubt Sandy Leon is a long term solution for a starter, but he's more than capable on the defensive side and I have zero problem riding the hot hand with the bat right now. This team is in a funk and could use that.

I get it, the Red Sox broke the rules and if someone else did it it doesn't justify it. You can't justify a murder if your friends gets away with one, but I don't like seeing people bash the Sox for this on one hand and then turn around and bury their heads in the sand about other teams. If you look at last year, out of every team who had restrictions the Sox did this with a higher profile player than anyone else, signing Guaimaro out of Venezuela who was ranked by MLB at#18. Now as a point of reference the guys ranked above and below him were signed for 1.3 and 1.2 million dollars. They also took Simon Muzziotti who was a top 30 guy for 300K as well. So the Sox did it, they are paying the price and all things considered they're not paying that hefty of a price when you really think about it. Guys are being taken away from them they otherwise would not have any chance of having. But if this is a message from MLB to deter other teams from doing it, then we SHOULD be angry and we SHOULD feel that the Sox are getting the short end of the stick if nothing happens to the Yankees or Rays. Both those teams are under restrictions this year but somehow the Rays were able to sign both the 18th and 31st ranked prospect for under 300K, both guys and to give you an ideal of what those guys sign for take a look at the following link. http://m.mlb.com/news/article/134058394/clubs-sign-top-july-2-international-prospects There is no way those teams are making those deals without circumnavigating the rules the same way the Sox did. The Yankees are also tied in to the #25 prospect, there is no way he is signing for 300K without some kind of package deal. If this truly isn't a witch hunt, then something will have to give here because that is literally happening. If the Sox are alone on this then how are the Rays getting Diego Infante and Roimer for 300K and how are the Yankees getting Roancy Contreras??? In essence the Sox can't complain, they got a ticket for driving 85 in a 65 when no one else did for going 70 in a 65 last year. But this year there appears to be even more teams doing packaged deals with the Rays almost 100% mirroring what the Sox did value wise and we see nothing but tumbleweeds on that front.

Post of the day.

No you're not, but it's also not good business to piss off a lot of people in your industry. I'm a proud and successful business owner and there is a big difference between being competitive and trying to make a profit and then blatantly stepping on someone elses shoes and throwing them under the bus.

It's a blatant bending of the rules so in the spirit of following the rules yes. But in my opinion a team should be able to sign any player for any amount with little restrictions from MLB baseball. This would be like the gov't telling me how much I can spend on hiring people to run my company, this all stems from MLB trying favor and pump up the smaller markets, even though the bigger markets are the one making the money (hence bigger market) I don't think that's relevant though. If the MLB wanted to clarify the rules then they should have done just that or change them. They didn't have to drop the hammer. Now if it comes out in the following days that the Red Sox were specifically warned against such contracts then I'll change my opinion.

No that's not the issue, even if MLB is right all evidence suggests they singled out the Red Sox. That's what I take issue over.

I never said they were, only that it was common practice. And why would MLB clear them in the first place if they knew they all came from the same camp? Why not just tell them they can't do that then and there and end it.

Nothing I said was inaccurate. The packaged deals circumnavigate the rule that they can't sign a guy over 300K who is likely worth over 300K, and as is widely recognized....has been common practice. The fact that the Red Sox haven't filed a grievance yet isn't evidence of the contrary.

All international contracts are not effective until cleared by MLB, as they were almost a year ago.

I don't buy that bs. I'll trust the experts in the industry over a clever poster (I mean that as a compliment) who wants to win an argument. And here is my problem with your argument. If the Sox challenge the rule then they are throwing all the other teams under the bus too. If me you and 3 other guys went out to the tittie bar and left our wives at home, and then get into a fight and only I got arrested and end up in the newspaper, I'm not going to run and tell the world that everyone else was there too just because I got in trouble. That is exactly how you make enemies, I seriously doubt that John Henry wants to make an enemy of 1/2 the other teams in the league. Again, the Sox didn't exceed their bonus pool, they didn't exceed 300K on any one player they DID try to circumnavigate that rule by bundling contracts. However they are the only team that is getting in trouble for the latter of those even though it's been widely reported that bundled contracts is common. Reported by respected industry insiders. Reported not just today buy a year ago when teams were entering the second signing period of having to work around such restrictions. Again I'll take the word of respected industry insiders over choosing not to believe what they reported just because the Sox havent' pushed back against it. And for all we know they may, this is day ONE.

So you ignore the industry insiders saying that this is common practice???

The Sox did not exceed their total bonus pool, nor did they sign one player to more than 300K. They packaged players from the same camps in multiple 300K deals. Which as you said MLB is now saying against the rules, but it's been widely reproted that this is not uncommon so that is why I say it seems not fair to the Sox.

yes I read that, I've also read that what the Sox did was common practice. It looks like they were made an example of, which I say is unfair. Also not too mention that every kid who had a deal lined up with the Sox has now been rung up to dry for tomorrow. That's not fair to the kids either.

Yes except all 33 of the Sox international signees in the 2015 signing period did not exceed their $3,681,000 million dollar bonus pool.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/mlb-takes-away-prospects-red-sox-hammers-boston-international-penalties/#SBWxUtOaH8s8Thy2.97 "Package deals are not uncommon among Latin American signings" "All of these five players (and the players who signed with the Red Sox from the same trainers’ programs) signed last year and had their contracts approved by MLB, with the knowledge that they were all coming from the same program." Not to mention that article does make it sound to me that some bullying may have been going on by MLB investigators who effectively threatened the sox signees careers to get them to negotiate. In the end, we lost players who never would of had if we didn't circumnavigate the rules. And 16 year old international free agents are more lottery picks than high school draftees (although the Sox have done VERY well here in recent years) But I'm not 100% convinced the Red Sox aren't being singled out here. They just got Rodger Goodelled.

Also worth pointing out is that every contract that MLB voided today, they APPROVED last year.