oldtimer

You coach him properly and then have patience.

Sounds like an excuse for poor performance to me. JBJ has to get his head together and needs help from Chili Davis to get back to be an acceptable offensive threat. It's getting to a point where his career is on the line. He has shown the capability in the past so it is a matter of him finding himself.

Today, the bullpen tried to give the game away and thankfully Kimbrel was brought in to stop the bleeding. Having Thornburg and Smith not able to help this team has left us weakened in the pen. This sitation appears to be bad luck or back reading of the medical reports.

I agree the coaching staff bears some responsibility in the gaffs we see. What we don't know is whether the coaches did all he should have done and still the playing screwed up or not.

I think JBJ is one of the best defensive players in the league and his offensive showing when hot indicates he could hit. I long ago identified what I thought was his hitting issues and noted earlier this year that despite his statement to the contrary, he really did not change his hitting mechanics. Should he go with someone who would get his attention and have him try a shorter and more compact swing, he might hit very well indeed. In my opinion, the Sox should talk seriously with him about his career and get Chili Davis to do a swing makeover. The time to have done that was the off season, so now he is in a position where he is hurting the team and his trade value is minimal.

Thornberg has been placed on the 60 day disabled list. The curse continues.

Hanley has heated up. He has been irratic and he shows little emotion. I had thought maybe having Ortiz around to talk to might help him but he has found something else and is going off in the last few games. We have solid core hitting although jbj just hasn't got it going much at all. Even when he does make good contact the balls are being caught. Other than hiim, we are somewhat weak at 3rd, depending on who plays and also somewhat weak at catcher with Leon not hitting much and Vazquez while hitting, a bit of a question mark. The only thing I see coming along is a potential for improvement at 3rd base during the season. We still need to generate more runs.

Actually, it was 4 guys, as the first base coach should have been screaming directions as well.

Yes, thed lead runners were in a pickle though. If they run and the ball is caught, they can be caught off base. If they don't run, then Moreland is out if tagged first and then second base is tagged to put Pedroia out. If they play it half way,then probably only one of them is an easy out if the ball is dropped with the other likely advancing. If the ball is caught then probably one of them gets back safel. JBJ definitely should have run to first and if the ball is dropped take the bag. He and the first base coach were guilty of not thinking.

Things went our way tonight. Hanley may be heating up to give us a power threat. Hernandez appeared to make every play and looked determined not to make an error. All went very well with Sale having another very strong outing and he got a well deserved win. It all looked like the team would get in an entire game without some mix-up but in the bottom of the eighth we hit into one of the most bizarre triple plays imagineable. Moreland on second, Pedroia on first and JBJ hits a pop up into short left that the wind blew enough so that the ball was dropped. Moreland on second didn't try to advance on the play as he probably would have been out at third had he, but for some reason (confusion on his part) he didn't get back on 2nd and was tagged out when the ball was thrown in. Pedroia who also hadn't advanced was on first but he was called forced out at second and JBJ who hit the ball in the first place never even touched 1st base but instead was walking back to the dugout and was out at first on the throw over. I am an older man now and never have seen anything like it. It was unusual but wouldn't you think Moreland, Pedroia, Bradley and the first base coach would have handled it better? Glad it didn't cost us the game.

Players at my age lose the snap needed to power the ball over the 300 foot fence and are slowed by cranky or replaced joints and a little of Pablo's former weight problem. There is also a noticeable loss of mentality in some players, so they make mental errors, but there are those that have kept a lot of ability and still play competitively while over 80 and even some up to 85. Our Red Sox players don't have the age and physical issues and should maintain the quickness and strength to compete. The loss of awareness of some of them such as with Hembre and Rameriz seems to be their difficulty of staying focussed. In Hernandez issue I see a lack of confidence rather than lack of the fundamental tools. Whatever is bothering them individually, this is the second recent game where we committed 4 errors. Too many to be a winning program.

Many of the guys who contribute to this forum have been or still are playing either baseball or softball at some level. I play in 2 over 75 year old softball leagues year round. I'll bet most of you have a similar thought about defense. Before each play is made all the defenders need to ask themselves what the situation is on the field and how they need to react in different scenarios that might develop. If its hit to me what base do I go to and will I have to hurry. On offense it is similar, know how many outs and where defenders are playing and the strength of arms when running the bases. Last night we saw Hernandez hurry trying to make a double play and he botched it rather than taking a sure out. He also made a bad throw to first. That play wasn't particularly pressured but he seemed to feel pressure from somewhere. Hembree's throw in the direction of Pedroia indicated he really hadn't thought through the opportunity for a double play in advance and had no idea of what to do. Throws from the outfield have been poor of late when we had good opportunites to register an out but our players didn't look sound throwing the ball. Hanley's base running was another example of a guy not really being aware of the game situation. These players are pros getting paid big bucks to do their job. Errors are inevitable in any game but mental errors and not learning fundamentals, like pitchers covering 1st base on a ball hit to the right side of the first baseman have been evident on this team. This is not to cast the negative thoughts to apply to all our guys. We have a solid core that play the game well. Whose fault is it that we have such poor fundamentals at times. The players certainly are front and center and it also has to fall on the coaching staff as well. Hope we see better tonight. Sale needs run support and solid defense. The guy deserves to win with his exceptional performances to date. We can't afford to blow games at Fenway against division rivals. Losing is one thing but totally blowing a game is quite another.

Having watched another pretty good pitching performance go down the drain I am not in the best of moods. Our third base situation is not acceptable. Hernandez is a decent young hitter but looks lost playing third. Two errors tonight, both on relatively easy plays. Then there was Hembre and his inexplicable throw in the direction of Pedroia and 10 feet from Bogaerts covering 2nd for the double play. Our throwing from the outfield has been poor with Beni making a poor throw to home where he might have gotten an out. Seems like our outfield needs to make accurate throws instead of winging it. JBJ has done the same thing several times this year. He has the arm strength but some reason just unloads the ball wildly. Then of course there was the rally killing bonehead running into second which was occupied by Beni. Is he paying attention? Beni didn't want to risk running into an out done 3 as we were. Baltimore looks far more polished on defense. Our hitting also left a little to be pessimistic about as well. Not getting enough hits with runners in scoring position although Baltimores defense took away several that might have been hits had they been made against our defense. So what do we do? Most of the guys are doing their jobs but we need to find an answer for 3rd base, instill in the outfield that the throw needs to made accurately and I don't know what to suggest against bonehead base running plays. Its not just limited to Hanley although he may be the worst in that regard. Smart pills? Does the manager need to get on these guys to play good ball? I really don't know what to suggest. Meanwhile, our bright future looks a little dimmer with each error filled monstrosity like tonight.

Maybe we should have put wright in to run for him.

I agree. Don't know why he held as he was at least a third of the way to the plate before he turned around.

His hitting flaws are obvious but I know he really wants to improve. The time to improve was in the off season to correct his approach that results in infrequent contact. His past performances show that he can be a very important hitter for the team. So what is going on between Chili Davis and JBJ. Davis is a professional hitting coach and must see the flaws and try to help. I can only conclude JBJ does not listen and learn.

I understand the Sox have decided to go with Vazquez as the primary catcher, moving Leon to a backup role. That move makes sense for now and agrees with one of the movess I had suggested. Now bringing back Ortiz as a clubhouse presence (not to play) in some form might give motivation to some players. Don't know how to get JBJ going as he still has hitting flaws that he hasn't addressed. The elements are on the team, we just need help at third and maybe from center to get more runs going.

Since this thread is labeled hitting, I will confine myself to that topic. I have been disappointed by the season to date and had hoped for more with the guys we have. I find it difficult to play the pollyanna for this team as I don't see a clear way forward to be competitive. True, we have Beni actually performing perhaps better than expected with in excess of a 320 average and on pace for between 15 and 20 HRs. Betts will hit and still has the ultra quick bat. Pedey is still a pro and I expect he will hit but perhaps with reduced power as he ages, Moreland is hitting better than i expected. Good signing by DD. Bogearts will hit but I don't expect a lot of power. The problem I have is with the rest of the starters. Rameriz tends to be erratic and I postulate he missing Ortiz presence to keep his spirit up. Hope he can produce in the DH role and give us 150 games. JBJsaid he worked on his hitting this off season. What I see so far is he is not seeing the ball and cutting at ptches outisde the strike zone. He still has that long, looping swing designed to hit homers but he has to make contact to do that. His problem is he doesn't put the bat on the ball. Sandoval is a free swinger with some power when he makes contact. Again, he doesn't make enough contact to help the team. Hernandez does have plate discipline and would have a decent average but we wouldn't get the long ball a third baseman should provide. Leon appears to be back to his normal hitting which is not major league quality. Vazquez has been better but you wonder if he could keep it up. What i see so far is a team that is a middle of the pack American League team in the runs scored area. We need to get JBJ going although I don't hold a lot of hope for him since he has not made improvements year to year. We need to decide on 3rd base. Preferably we need a 3rd baseman that can hit with power. We currently don't have one. our DH needs to produce regularly. Maybe bring Ortiz back in some capacity would help Rameriz. Our catchers need to hit their weight going forward. Even with those areas improved, we still do not have a lot of power bats. Right now I see at best a team that is average in the RBI race in the American league. I don't think that is good enough to land us in the playoffs.

We had one inning last night and then couldn't produce another run, eve though we had a ton of base runners. In at least one incident, we had the bases loaded and nobody out with our top hitters up. Had we scored in another inning I would have felt more positive. I agree with those who feel we need another power hitter since the ones we were counting on don't seem to be having a good season.

They come out when we aren't hitting any longballs.

Lots of talk about how we are going to be okay because we have so many good hitters. I hope it is true, but I have observed enough games so far to have draw some conclusions. 1. JBJ said he had done a lot of work in the off season and expected to hit much better. To date it looks like he isn't seeing the ball well and still has that long looping swing that limits his value at the plate. Good thing for him he is an exceptional center fielder. I hope he gets hot again this year but right now he is showing little at the plate and if we are counting on him for serious production, we may be overly optimistic. 2. To date Vasquez is a better hitter than Leon and should be the principle catcher since both are a toss up defensively. When you compare a 180 BA with a 400+ BA and the general appearance in the box I would limit Leon to right hand pitchers who he has hit in the past and hope for the best. Unless he shows more, Leon won't help us as he did last year. 3. Hanley has been and is likely to continue to be erratic at the plate. Without Ortiz to keep him straight he could well have a fall off in homers and RBI's 4. Comparing Pablo to Marco as far as hitting is concerned, Pablo is a free swinger with more power but likely to have a significantly lower BA and on base % than Marco, who is a more disciplined hitter. Marco is also at least Pablo's equal in the field so when Pable gets healthy again, how short a least do we have. Like others, I think Betts, Bogaerts, Beni, Pedey and Moreland are solid hitters but unless Betts can recreate his power of last year we have no big home run threats. JBJ, Leon,Hanley and Pablo were a hope in that area but don't appear to me to be a relaible source.

I voted for coaching which is also along the line of team chemistry. There doesn't seem to be that hate to lose feeling about the team. They just parade up to bat and down they go. Someone needs to create that atmosphere. Of the players, Pedroia is the only one who fits that bill but nothing is happening there as yet. Mookie might but he tends to be the nice guy type. Farrell also shares some of the blame or credit for the atmosphere in the clubhouse. Francona had a knack for keeping the chemistry positive and the old cowboy up types are gone.

I wonder if this is an indication of how we will hold up against good pitching. So far it seems to be and good pitching is what we will face if we are so fortunate to get into the playoffs. Where are the firery players who get angry with losing and show it?

Or Farrell could wind up with his 3rd last place finish. No runs means no wins.