Eddy Ballgame

Ben wasn't going to undermine his boss to Abraham for a Globe article. Ben wasn't the only one in the Front Office who thought that offer was a joke.

That was Lucchino who publicly defended it. Ben was livid over that offer. Scherzer had just rejected 160 extension from Detroit and Bailey re-upped with Cincy for 110. Offering Lester "80" was idiotic. All Lucchino on that deal.

Miller said that the Sox offered him 4/32, which, unlike the Lester offer, was at least legit under the circumstances at the time.

I didn't think it was any kind of "secret" about the Lester offer. Believe what you want, but Ben Cherington knew that the offer was out of touch with "reality." Lucchino is the guy who publicly defended the offer, not Lucchino, who was Ben's boss by the way.

If you find the need to "blame" someone for the Sox butchering of the Lester deal, at least get it right. Ben had about as much to do with that ridiculous initial offer to Lester as you did. There are several reasons why Larry Lucchino is no longer involved in Front Office Ops for the Sox, and the Lester offer was certainly one of them.

Yep...10 titles in 4 sports since the turn of the century, but we still expect the worst. That's not going to change for any of us who were born before 1990.

If Price undergoes TJ surgery and is done for the year, they aren't going to trade Devers, Travis or Groome for a pitcher for lots of reasons. 2017 isn't win or bust. They aren't losing anyone of significance after this year. They should still be in the hunt barring anymore "significant" injuries to the rotation. Dombrowski is still in shock he was able to get Sale without trading Benintendi, Devers or Swihart, who were all deal breakers "apparently." He's also said several times in the nicest, most professional way possible that he couldn't believe how much Moncada sucked last year in his debut. He literally takes 10 seconds in between every word when asked about him.

No worries, Moon. The airing of the grievances is healthy on these types of forums. I WAS being condescending and definitely too "douchy." It probably won't be the last time. We'll probably have more positive banter than bad moving forward, though. Cheers...

Nice resume, Moonslav. I'm done arguing over something that we both see in a completely different light.

First off, you are "Captain Condescending," so I would think you'd be able to handle it when you get it back a little. I'm done arguing about Brock Holt. I won't lose a second's sleep if he's traded tomorrow.

I have nothing against "stats." They don't tell the whole story, though, especially in Holt's case. Someone stated their "opinion" that Holt was overrated by fans as if it was fact. As someone else mentioned, Holt's probably a replacement level player at best if he played every day. Those guys are a dime a dozen, but a guy who shows up at the park every day, mentally and physically ready to play any one of 7 positions is extremely rare, and therein lies his value.

Wow. All I can say is wow.

Stick to analyzing the stats, coming up with the same ridiculous trade proposals 400 times and copying and pasting minor league prospect rankings. In all seriousness, there's value in that on this message board. Try to avoid the human element of the game of baseball, though. Waaaayyyy over your head.

Ummmmm...John Farrell's not going to use his bench based on a statistical analysis that shows Josh Rutledge might have a better chance of catching a ground ball at 3rd base. He's going to try to keep guys fresh, and yes, barring injury, Brock Holt is going to have more at-bats and play more innings in the field than anyone else on the Sox bench this season. Their is no such thing as "first backup" or "2nd backup" at every position.

You're underestimating the value of a guy who can play 7 positions at any given time. The first time the guy ever played first base in his life was at the major league level. There are maybe 3 or 4 guys in all of baseball who can do what he does throughout a full 162 game schedule. Stat guys will never get it, but his peers do. Trust me on this. He's as respected as anyone in that clubhouse. Let's put it this way. Remember when all of the "stat people" were whining because Farrell was playing Jonny Gomes against righties in the playoffs on their way to a World Series Championship in 2013, despite the " stats" saying that he was wrong? Farrell's response was to the media was, "Good things seem to happen when he's in the line-up." You'll probably never understand because you've obviously never played the game at a high level, but Brock Holt is the type of player that "makes things happen" when he's in the line-up. Again, there's a reason why any team in baseball would love to have him on their roster, and yes, you want to get him in the line-up a few times a week to keep him fresh.

The Sox scored 100 more runs than anyone else last year and they should see an improvement in left and at 3rd offensively, regardless of how well Sandoval does. If he struggles badly, he'll be replaced. The defense and starting pitching should be significantly better and I have a feeling people are going to like Mitch Moreland. He's a "dirt dog" type, who has a swing that should play well at Fenway, and never understimate the importance of a guy who can play D at first. A guy like that makes the entire infield that much better. Modern stats prove it.

Fair enough. Holt's value doesn't reside with his production or "games played." I can't explain it any other way. Let's just disagree and move on.

You're not getting it. Again, how many guys in the Majors can do what Holt does? Maybe 3 or 4? How many guys can give you his 2nd base production over a full season? Maybe 30? I'll explain it this way. Think "supply and demand." Do you think 25 teams contacted the Sox because of his value as a 2nd baseman? The answer is no. He's been exposed. You've said yourself a thousand times that he breaks down in the 2nd half every year. You don't think other teams are aware of this? There's a reason why so many teams are trying to create their own "Brock Holts" in the minors, but are realizing that it's not easy at all. Most guys want an opportunity to "play everyday." Very few have the ability and the mindset to do what he does with any kind of consistency.

It actually makes perfect sense. As I mentioned, there are a handful of guys who can do what Holt does, yet there are probably 40 guys who can give you his 2nd base production over a full season. How does this not make sense to you?!

We'll disagree, and you're right, Farrell will likely disagree as well. Maybe they should start training robots how to spit sunflower seeds and stick them in the dugout. Perfect example of stats not fully quantifying "value."

I don't think anyone is worried about "hurting Sandoval's feelings." You posted that Rutledge and Sandoval should platoon at 3rd, completely forgetting about Brock Holt, who will definitely be in the 3rd base mix barring injury. Maybe it's because you had him in 100 different trade proposals in the offseason that you forgot he was on the team. 😳 I understand that Brock Holt doesn't resonate with "stat guys." There's a reason why DD said that as many as 25 teams contacted the Sox about Holt, and it's not because there are 25 teams that think he'd be a better starting 2nd baseman than the one they have. That's not where is greatest value is at all. Brock Holt is a high energy guy who shows up to the ballpark everyday completely prepared to play any one of 7 positions. He doesn't bitch when he doesn't play and he always gives you 100%. You can count on one hand how many players that can do that with any kind of consistency in Major League baseball, and THAT'S where his greatest value is, not as a starter for another team, where he'll likely get exposed.

I was kidding about Pedroia. The point is that they need to find out if Swihart can catch. He could very well turn into a BJ Surhoff type some day and I don't think anyone would be surprised by it, but for right now, this season, unless he tells them that he no longer wants to catch, he's going to catch. That seems pretty clear to me. I think that one whole hell of a lot more than 4 things would have to happen for Swihart to be in the 3rd base mix this season, which is why I mentioned Pedroia catching. As far as Holt goes, they are going to try to get him in the line-up more than Rutledge and 3rd is the most logical spot, barring injury.

I'm not saying that if Rutledge makes the team, he'll never be in there against lefties. What I'm saying is that Brock Holt is going to play some 3rd base, unless he's traded or injured, so their won't be a Sandoval/Rutledge "platoon." As far as Swihart goes, again, the circumstances are completely different than they were last year. Coming up with a scenario where Swihart plays 3rd this season is about as fruitless as trying to come up to up with a scenario where Dustin Pedroia becomes the starting catcher.

Pablo is hitting right handed again, so he'll get a chance to face some lefties and again, Brock Holt is going to play some 3rd base. There won't be a Rutledge/Pablo "platoon." There are no guarantees that Rutledge makes the roster. I don't think the Sox would ever consider Swihart at 3rd this season, unless there are a ton of injuries and no one is available via trade. They clearly regret putting him in left even though the circumstances were different than they are now, and I can't see a situation where they don't commit to him being a catcher for at least all of 2017.