S5Dewey

That's just a false correlary (sp?). It implies that just because some things that have always been believed have been proven to be untrue then everything that has always been believed is untrue. There were times when people believed that the sun comes up in the East and water is wet, too. Some things don't change.

According to Spotrac the Sox are now at $231M after benefits are included. They then are allowed a negative $25.6M as "Estimated Tax Space" bringing them down to an estimated tax bill of $8.3M. $8.3M doesn't seem to be an outrageous tax on $231M. Am I missing something?

In what is IMO one of the greatest quotes of all time, it's alleged that when Satchel Page was asked, "But don't you wish you'd had a chance to play against the best players of your time?", Page replied, "What makes you think I didn't?"

The difference is that (good) labor unions have to be trying to protect both the workers and the profits of the ownership. They have to be careful not to kill that goose that's supporting the union members. At the same time most owners are trying to maximize their profits by giving the employees the absolute least they can give them and still retain them. That's the biggest difference I can see between union/management relations now vs. in the 1960's - 70's. Back then most companies wanted to keep their employees happy. Now they just want to keep them.

Although I hadn't thought of the SAG it's a good comparison. The synergy between MLB and the MLBPA is different from any Union/Management arrangement I can think of because the teams are privately owned and therefore have no obligation to report profits to shareholders. IOW the PA is negotiating blindly when it comes to profit and loss of the owners. That's why some of us fans are frustrated at the amount of money the elite players are getting. Most reasonable and rational people can understand that the players, the ones "making" the product, are entitled to a good piece of the pie but as in industry can't make that piece so big as to prevent the owners from making a profit. So the question is, How big is that player's piece? And a very associated question is, How much of high ticket prices is because of the player's salaries and how much of it is due to 'what the market will bear'? But I'm getting way off-topic here.... I find it disturbing that a labor union which should be working for the welfare of all it's members would have the right to take away a player's right to do when it is what a player may want and is in the owner's best interest. The purpose of labor unions is to protect the rights of workers - and I'd be the first to admit that sometimes happens to a fault - and improve their working conditions.

This will be an interesting arbitration case after this season if JBJ continues to hit. JBJ will be able to make a legitimate case that he's one of the premiere outfielders in baseball while the Sox FO can also make a legitimate case that he's too offensively streaky to be called 'elite'. Speaking as one of JBJ's biggest supporters and defenders here I have mixed emotions about his starting to hit again. I watch games hoping to see another of his highlight catches and I'd like to see him signed to a long-term contract. However, if he can OPS @ .800+ the Sox may not be able to afford him when he reaches free agency.

IIRC he started going to LF on May 20 of last year also (if that's the date he turned things around last year). It's been frustrating to watch him continually pull the ball and hit weak grounders to the right side, remembering what worked for him in 2018. I don't always understand what's going on in his head but I'm glad he's now going back to what worked last year rather than keep trying what hasn't worked for two consecutive years.

Yes, ^this^. While in theory it sounds like hitting a sphere with a cylinder squarely enough to even put it in play sounds like the most difficult thing in baseball it completely rules out what a pitcher has to do. Something I learned from watching the "Amieker pitch zone" (as Jerry says ) is that pitchers seldom throw a ball to the center of the plate. Instead they pitch to spots, depending on a hitter's perceived weakness, and they have to do it from 60+ feet away with a variety of spins on the ball to make the ball do what they want it to do over than 60' span. Then, if you have any belief in "clutch" (which is now spoken of as "high leverage situations" ), they frequently have to do it with runners on base when one small mistake often has serious consequences. If a hitter makes a mistake two times in three chances in high leverage situations, oh well, he's still a good hitter. If a pitcher does that it's likely he's back in AAA.

To answer the question, two reasons: It's because of the LT implications and the fact that the Sox are as close as they are to the upper limit. It's because even JH has a limit as to how much he'll spend, and the less he has to spend on Pedroia the more he has to spend on players who'll actually help the team. Edit to add a 3rd reason: Most people here (I think) don't just want to cut ties with Pedroia, possibly out of nostalgia or "fairness" but at the same time want to restructure his pay somehow to keep him a part of the team as a coach, "special consultant" or whatever.

This would make everyone happy. The problem here is the MLPBA and what they'd "allow".

Let me preface this with saying that I spent all my working life as a member of a labor union. I've served on the Executive board for many years and was involved in negotiating more than one contract at my plant of more than 1000 employees. So I believe in labor unions. Now... At the risk of going off on a tangent here, it's occurred to me that the MLPBA has an unusual relationship with its players. They're neither hay nor chaff, as we like to say up here in the Northeast. They're not considered to be the 'sole bargaining agent' for the players because if they were all players in the same general circumstances would get the same pay. At the same time they're able to dictate player's minimum salaries and how players and management can restructure a contract. It would seem that the MLBPA has taken over the decisions a player can make in regard to the end of their careers, at a time when the players would want more flexibility.

Here's what I don't get about the CBA refarding the Sox and Pedey's contract. Are posters (Jax especially) saying that the CBA prevents the Sox from buying out Pedey's contract? Because it seems like I remember player's contracts being bought out before. (Don't ask... I can't document it... just my old memory). And if they buy him out doesn't he then become unencumbered and able to sign and do whatever he chooses? Can you spell "restraint of trade"? I get the collusion aspect of it... that Pedey and the Sox couldn't collude before the buyout to have it happen, but there are a lot of "hypothetical situations" that could be "discussed" without it being collusion. Collusion can be a very difficult thing to prove.

That's why I have so much respect for Dempster. He looked at his financial situation and made a choice to walk away while he could still play while leaving $13M on the table. Pedey may not have a choice and (according to what many here think) he's instead going to collect every penny he's due in spite of the fact that he's no longer able to play. Pedroia may have earned his money but like JH he's got enough to support an opulent lifestyle for the rest of his life. $100,000, 000 will do that for you... I imagine.

Among me and a whole lot of my friends the question of Pedey's being a team player was called into question with "It's not me, it's them", so that ship may have already sailed. It's a sad commentary when the definition of a person's success is measured by how much he's got rather than what he's done. In terms of baseball I have a lot more respect for Dempster than for Pedey at the moment.

Mal, I'd say that I love you like a brother but there's too much of an age difference for that so I'll say that I love you like a father. :-) However, if you've been reading these forums you must know by now that having your best hitter in the 3-hole is a waste of talent. Me? the way Devers is progressing I'd live and die with him in the 3-spot, but what do I know?

First, let me say again, "Thanks, Manny. You C/s!" :-( Whether or not he should do it is open to each person's view. He could do it to help his team be competitive during the next two years as well as to polish his reputation as a "team player". Of course, after "It's not me, it's them" it's possible that his reputation as a team player is questionable anyway.

That's the reason players take these long term contracts - as insurance against getting hurt (or seeing their skills decline). Anyone who was watching Pedey play must have seen the danger in signing him to that contract but it was preferable to watching him walk. In our quest to "get as much as we can" some people sometimes forget the ethical issues involved in it. Pedroia has already made over $110,000,000 (that's one hundred ten million dollars) in his career. He can help his team by walking away from the remaining $25,000,000, probably without hurting his standard of living too badly. /s/ Under the circumstances I'd hope he can see clear to retire, then take some kind of a baseball job within the organization. All he's doing now is tarnishing his legacy.

We're in agreement. The bold part above reiterates what I said but apparently I wasn't clear which player I was talking about. Sandoval showed little sign of having ML talent while he was in Boston. While Castillo certainly had some growing pains I believed he showed he could be a ML player. However, as things now stand there's no place for him on the roster. That may change next year as his contract gets shorter if DD and JH want to pony up for only one year's salary of $13.5M (or $14.7M depending on how you want to figure it). But that's still a lot of $$ for a 4th OF'er when some people want to replace our GG CF for less money than that. Let's wait until the bullpen fails before we start criticizing DD for not building a BP. "Robbed from Kimmie's post yesterday: The Red Sox are 20-1 when leading after eight innings. Barnes, Workman, Brasier, Walden and Hembree, the 5 relievers who Cora uses in high-leverage situations, have allowed four runs in 20.1 innings (1.77 ERA), 14 hits and five walks (0.93 WHIP) while striking out 26. If someone wants to say that we don't have someone who will always do the job I'll agree... but ...who does??

See, I didn't think JH's lack of spending this year was all that questionable. This is a team that put up 108 wins last year and coasted in September. The infield was pretty well set. The outfield was pretty well set. The bench was pretty well set after bringing back Pearce. The starting pitching staff was pretty well set. When you say there was no bullpen, well, this bullpen has been pretty decent. There was a bit of a gamble in Brazier and Barnes being setup men and closers so the best solution was to overpay for Kimbrel - which he refused to do. As I said, at some point money does matter. Dragging Sandoval's salary in to this discussion for the purpose or comparing him to Castillo doesn't hold water. They're two entirely different situations. One of them has ML talent, the other one doesn't - or at least didn't while he was in Boston. He's "paying Sandoval to play for another team" because Sandoval washed out of Boston. With Sandoval being a 5/10 man the best option was to cut him loose rather than keep him on the 25. He's paying Castillo to play in Pawtucket because the CBA was changed after Castillo was signed, so yes, there's some money involved in it but as I keep saying, at some point money does matter. If money truly didn't matter then JH would sign every free agent, throw them all against the wall and see what sticks, whicn would be a stupid way to run a business. JH didn't become a billionaire by being stupid.

Maybe I need to clarify my post. I wasn't in any way comparing Koji and Mariano. I was referring to how these two relievers will be remembered by their own team's fans.

With JBJ hitting

Sure, money always matters to JH to some degree, but in spite of the reset before 2017 the Sox won their division in and we all know about what happened in 2018. JH isn't going to spend foolishly and do things like paying Castillo to be our 4th OF'er but he's going to spend enough to keep the team competitive.

Right you are. Sale gave up 2 ER, the other two are on the defense. that was a disgusting display of bad baseball. It's had to beat a any team when you give them three "extra outs" in a game, let alone one of the best teams in baseball.

Yep. I'm not one to participate in negative speculation. I have never believed that there would be a cliff as long as JH is owning the team. IMO there are a couple of ways to look at JH's ownership: 1) He knows how to make money and knows that having a winning team is a money-maker. 2) The Red Sox are nothing but a Billionair's toy. JH likes to win and he wants to have a winning team even if he loses money. Or maybe it's both 1 & 2.

Koji is the Gold Standard for Sox fans just as Miriano is the Gold Standard for Yankees fans. When Koji came into the game it was OVER! No drama, just strikes and outs. Every Red SOX reliever in the future will be compared to Koji and come up short.