moonslav59

Show me where I misstated your position, then argued against a point you never made. Name "the bunch" of straw men I constructed. You're straw-manning on me straw-manning! LOL! BTW, nice avoidance of my reply to your question.

I'm not sure the move to LF was what screwed JBJ up. I'm not even sure the argument some make that we rushed him too quickly is totally accurate. He looked ready at the minor league level- bat and glove. Some players just take longer to adjust to MLB than others, and we'll never know, if we waited a yeara on JBJ, he wouldn't have still gone through a tough adjustment period. It may also have just been an extended slump or a loss of something nobody could figure out. I wasn't accusing you of "straw man" building, Hugh. I did think you seemed to act like I wasn't understanding your point or that I didn't know what the standard procedure was. Maybe I don't value the "mental side" as much as you do, but I'm not dismissing it wholesale. I don't think I ever called for Moncada to be immediately switched to LF or 3B. I may be wrong about him being closer to ML ready offensively, so if that is true, then I agree that we can wait the normal wait time to consider starting the process of moving him to another position. If he is ML ready with the bat right now, then I wouldn't wait too much longer (maybe 15-20 more games) before beginning to give him some reps at 3B or LF (not both). I'm not saying start playing him in LF next week or even 2-3 weeks from now, but probably sooner tahn we did with Swihart and others. I'm just not sure how long our luck can run having to quickly get players ready for a new position at the ML level.

Maybe/probably, but we can say the same about Moncada, Benintendi, Espinoza and maybe even Devers.

I'd rather have Vaz at C than Swihart, and keeping both with such a high need at pitching for us and such a high need for catching elsewhere, makes me think Swihart is the odd man out. Devers as well.

Like a hypothetical scenario.

A straw man is an argument based on a fallacy by giving the impression of refuting an argument made by someone, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that person. You claim I want to "jerk Moncada around", when my position is far from that. I don't see what's so hard for you to understand about calling your argument "straw man". You may disagree with my definition of "jerking around", but clearly you should be able to understand why I am calling it a straw man argument. And, I hate getting in argument over semantics, knit-picking peoples positions, and reading into things inaccurately. Can we move on to baseball? Many people felt Middy was a high risk to fail in 2013. We ended up having to play Bogey at 3B after just 10 games in the minors. To me, that was "jerking" a player around, and at the worst possible time and level. Many people saw that once Vazquez was over his injury, we'd need to find another place to play Swihart, assuming his bat became as many projected it might become. This talk was even occurring before Vazquez's injury. Swihart ended up being "jerked" to LF after just 12 games in AAA. You can claim these two cases were injury related and this sort of thing happens in baseball, but there is an argument to be made to be proactive, especially in cases like Swihart's where it is pretty obvious there is an issue of being blocked at his natural position anyways. The Bogey-Iggy issue was different. It seemed clear all along,m Sox management wanted Bogey to be their long term SS not Iggy, so I get the reasoning to not start converting Bogey to 3B, but having him learn how to play 3B "just in case" would not have been a radical idea or "jerking" as much as he actually ended up being jerked. Yeah, the philosophy is to not change a guys position shortly after advancing to a new level. I get it. I understand the benefits, but how cool is it to have a player change positions at the MLB level so quickly? It's happened often with the Sox. Too often for me to not be concerned. The Betts situation did not occur under any stress or pressure due to injury or immediacy needs at the ML level due to a playoff run. Mookie's rapid rise surprised just about everyone. It seemed like he was jumping up a level every few weeks. He played mostly 2B with some SS from 2011 to the fall league of 2013. He was promoted to AA to start 2014 then promoted to AAA after just 54 games, and onto MLB action after just 45 games at AAA. That's 3 levels of advancement in just a few months, and along the way, they converted him from a middle infield position to CF. In your opinion, was this following "standard procedure"? In your opinion, was this "jerking" a fragile prospect around? Yes, I believe they gave him 30-40 games at AA as a 2B before moving him to CF, which is pretty close to the timetable I am suggesting we try with Moncada. (Actually, I am not calling for moving Moncada to LF or 3B right away. I was just saying he could start taking reps in practice sooner rather than later.) Betts played more OF than 2B at AAA (33 CF, 4 RF, 6 2B), so they did transition him adequately before the bigs, but there was no pressure to promote him to MLB in mid 2014. What if there had been a big need? Would it have been prudent to get Betts time in the OF sooner than they chose to do so? I'm not sure what the answer would have been. All worked out well with Betts as he adjusted better than anyone anticipated. Bogey looked good at 3B in 2014, but not so good in 2015. Swihart's sample size was too small to gauge. Some say we messed up JBJ by forcing him to play LF. I was for keeping him in CF and moving Ellsbury to LF, but I'm not sure his situation relates to this argument.

You're greatly over exaggerating what I'm calling for. That's the "jerking straw man".

I'm hoping Brentz does well, but I've never been a Brentz believer.

Regarding the Teheran rumors...all of the reasons I didn't want to see a prospects-for-Hamels blockbuster a year or two ago don't apply here: he's young, on a great contract, and presumably has his best days ahead of him. In theory, that's the type of pitcher you break the bank for, but you'd have to be damn sure he's a TOTR type in this division/league. I've read opinions that his stuff wouldn't play up in the AL East, and FIP and other ERA estimators don't make him look nearly as good as his sub-3 ERA would indicate. The Braves will want a big haul, and who can blame them, but I'd hate to give up one of our top 4 prospects plus 2-3 other pieces and have Teheran be only a #4 type pitcher for us. His age and contract are very appealing. He's 25 1/2. His luxury tax number is: $5.4M to 2019 and then $12M in his 2020 option year. Even if he ends up being a 3/4 slot pitcher as he enters his "prime years", we won't get burned on the money. The risk is with what prospects we give up to get him. It would take at least one of our top 4 prospects, and I share user's concerns, but I'm just not sure anyone else is available that is as good as Teheran. That doesn't mean I'm willing to grossly overpay for Teheran. His 102 xFIP- since 2013 is scary. Yeah, it's not as bad as Shelby Miller's 110, but it's still on the wrong side of 100. Teheran must be a magician, because his ERA- has been 87. That ranks him 21st out of 69 pitchers with 500+ IP since 2013. (Miller's is 94.) Teheran's WHIP ranks 15th at 1.15. His BAbip this year is .206, but his LD% is way down and his GB% is way up, so it might not all be luck. It's hard to judge a guy that is just 25. How much stock do you take in his 730+ IP at the ML level. The sample size is certainly big enough to be definitive, but at age 25, one could expect further growth. Overall, I think I'm with userbame on this. His mechanics scare me too. He's not as good as some of his numbers show he is. I would not overpay. I'd offer Swihart, Devers, Kopech and Lakins or Dubon. That won't be enough, so....

For the small sample size lovers: Moncada's AA OPS is now up to .842.

Maybe they're waiting until he changes his name to Boncada, so he can joining the "New Killer Bees": Betts, Bogey & Bradley (& Benintendi?) LOL

Hanigan is pretty good on defense as well, if he could just learn to catch a knuckler.

It's not just for the "sake of it". Moncada will not be our 2Bman. His offense may be very close, if not already there, to being needed at the ML level. I don't want to see him having to play 3B or LF after just 10 games in the minors or previous practice sessions. It's not radical. It's not taking away time from his batting practice or his current position, at least in the beginning stages. You are saying I want to "jerk him" into a new position. That is not my suggested plan, so yes I know what a straw man is, and I'm not him- my plan is not the one you are arguing against.

Man oh man! I let my wife talk me out of going to the games this weekend! Nice to come home and watch it on delay. Awesome win!

I'd love to have Myers too, but we'd be using resources sorely needed to acquire pitching to get him.

He won't be ML average at 2B for quite a while. I don't see that as a viable argument. I also do not see us trading Moncada, and if we do, my guess is the next team will move him to a position better suited to his size and athleticism. (Sooner rather than later, which BTW does not mean it has to be tomorrow.)

Constructing straw men again. Asking someone to take some reps after practice is not "jerking".

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

My parents still live in Maine and have a sweet spot on Sebago Lake. We go to Maine every summer. Texas is too damn hot in July/August. I actually moved from Maine to Mexico City in 2004. I lived there for over 4 years before moving to Sugar Land, TX. Sometimes we visit Mexico in winter and Maine in summer. Yeah, we got it made.

So true! Salem took a hit as well.

Does it ever make you wonder, if we didn't have Moncada, Benintendi and Espinoza, teams might be more likely to trade something special for Swihart, Devers, Travis, Kopech & Lakins? Swihart's injury really hurts our chances of trading him to a contender for pitching. I doubt it matters much to non contenders.

Dubon & Beeks were promoted to AA. I'll be in Portland next week. The team is now stocked with guys I can't wait to see... Moncada, Benintendi, Dubon and more...

Not really related to the draft, but Dubon and Beeks were promoted to AA.

His struggles playing 2B is part of the reason I think moving him might be a good idea- sooner rather than later. It might take 3 years for him to become adequate defensively at 2B. I'm not sure that even if we didn't have Pedey locked up at 2B for infinity, Moncada would project to be our 2Bman in 2-3 years. Let me ask you this, Hugh, do you think that having Moncada (or any player in theory) stay after practice for maybe 20-30 minutes a day to take grounders at 3B or fly balls in LF, and then maybe in 2-3 weeks, (assuming he's doing fine in practice) start playing him a game here and there at his new position could seriously retard his growth and pr0gression?

Well, maybe "ruin" is a bit too strong a word, but Clemens actually went after McNamee with a law suit after the hearing! I'm sure Brian's life was all peachy creamy all those days. The money payoff is pure speculation, and I said "I believed" and did not state as fact, but it wasn't about McNamee. I'll spell it out as best I remember: Mindy McCready has never denied she had an affair with Clemens beginning at age 15. I do remember reports that Clemens gave McCready thousands of dollars, but I'm not sure if that was ever confirmed. She reportedly met him at a bar at age 15 and went back to his hotel room, but she denied she had sex with Clemens until age 18. What a wonderful man this Roger Clemens is! The affair supposedly lasted 10 year. McCready later had drug issues and committed suicide years later. I guess Roger had a positive influence on her life.