moonslav59

Add the other $6.5M a year to our last Lester offer, and we could have had Lester and Miller with Iggy at SS and Bogey at 3B.

You're more than welcome. You and I have always been the defense first SS guys, and it's no coincidence that the years we won rings, we had great to decent fielding SSs. The one year I think really hurt was 2006. I loved having Gonzo at SS, but I think the disappointing season soured Sox management on the idea that great defense at SS wins more than having a better hitting SS than the SS norm. The funny thing was, right after Gonzo left us, he had a stretch of new found offense. He had a .793 OPS in 2007 with 16 HRs. That was his career high OPS. He later had 23 HRs in 2010 and repeated his .793 OPS. I cried when we traded Burleson. That was sick!

I mentioned that as my biggest issue with Iggy.

Add Swihart and Hembree or Barnes and I think they might give us Quintana, Robertson & Frazier. By giving up JBJ, I might want to try to sub Devers for Moncada, so maybe Moncada can play LF after Young's year is up (assuming Beni moves to CF). But, in one year we'll have a hole at 3B again as Frazier's deal is up. The other thing this trade does is give us 7 starting pitchers. That gives us enormous further trading stock.

I've always likes Quintana more than Sale and the extra year puts the icing on the cake.

I said ERod or Kopech not both, but I hear you. Either of those two could become the next Quintana or Sale.

I'm thinking the same, but when you figure Moncada probably has higher trade value, it almost begs the question.

When you look at the total savings the Dodger trade gave us for just 2013, here's the numbers: $21.9M AGon $21.1M Crawford $17M Beckett $1.5M Punto $71.2M Total minus the $3.9M payment we made to the Dodgers, we saved: $67.1M in 2013 alone! $67.1M out of our 2013 payroll budget of $154,555,000 is over 43% of the budget. The other good thing about that Napoli signing was that if he did not do well, he might have made just $5M. It was clearly a great signing by Ben, and Napoli was an essential part of us winning a ring in 2013, as was Vic and to a lesser extent Drew and Dempster. We probably don't win without Uehara either. Gomes was a minor piece, but still important. Carp helped us early on as well. When's the last time a Sox GM replaced 6 or 7 key positions in one winter, and all of them did well and played roles in winning a ring?

Good point, but that $9M got us some talent we may not have had. We paid Gomes and Uehara a combined $9M. We got Drew for $9M. I know this is cherry-picking, but saving $9M was not chump change, and nobody expected Napoli to outplay AGon that year.

I see Iggy as having rare moments of not concentrating. You don't have a UZR/150 like he does by snoozing even 51% of the time. Bogey's career OPS is just 60 points higher than Iggy's. Certainly, I'd project Bogey's future OPS to be more like 100 points better, but the differential expected at the time of the trade has not yet materialized. To me, Iggy's biggest fault is not 100% concentration, it has been his health issues. The Iggyphiles have mostly contended that we could have/should have kept both. Bogey would have solved our 3B issues (Middy>Holt>Pablo>Shaw) while Iggy helped our pitching staff out by playing plus plus defense at SS. It's hard to imagine how it all would have worked out, especially had Iggy got hurt in Boston as much as in Detroit. It's not clear which choice would have won out in the longer run. If you believe Peavy was essential to winning in 2013, then you have your answer. If not, it's a little more foggy. If believe keeping Iggy would have kept us from signing Pablo, then maybe you have your answer right there too. This has been an interesting debate with both sides having strong points to make on many different levels.

Napoli was better than AGon in 2013 at a fraction of the cost. Drew replaced Aviles Pretty ballsy moved to move Bogey to 3B near the end, but it worked. Gomes replaced Nava Vic replaced Cody Ross Carp was a big plus as a diamond in the rough. Dempster was a plus in the clubhouse and gave us innings. Uehara was a huge plus. Ben had a big influence on 2013.

Most innings at SS since I started following the Sox (1970): 8749 Burleson 8348 Nomar 4808 Valantin 4204 Hoffman 3713 Luis Rivera 3672 Bogey 3097 Aparicio 2143 Lugo 2094 Scutaro 2086 Owen 1976 Gutierrez 1815 J Reed 1432 Drew 1327 Gonzo 1293 Renteria 1213 Petrocelli 1170 Aviles 1124 Lowrie 1074 Guerrero 1071 Cora

Here are the best UZR/150 seasons by our SSs since 2003: (500+ innings) 2004 Resse 19.8 2006 Gonzo 14.6 2013 Drew 6.7 2012 Aviles 5.2 2009 Green 3.0 2011 Scutaro 1.7 2015 Bogey 0.9 2003 Nomar 0.1 2007 Lugo -0.6 2016 Bogey -2.8 2008 Lugo -3.3 2014 Bogey -3.7 2010 Scutaro -4.5 2005 Renteria -9.6 Best overall UZR/150 since 2003 (450+ innings) 20.3 Iggy 19.8 Reese 14.4 Gonzo 8.3 Drew 7.1 Aviles 4.8 A Cora 3.0 Green 2.8 Lowrie -1.0 Bogey -1.9 Scutaro -5.0 Cabrera -5.8 Nomar -7.9 Lugo -9.6 Renteria DRS (partially a product of more innings) Aviles 15/1170 innings Reese 12/508 Cora 10/1071 Iggy 7/452 Cab 6/491 Gonzo 0/1327 Green 0/644 Lowrie -1/1124 Scutaro -3/2095 Nomar -5/1676 Renteria -13/1293 Bogey -18/3672 Lugo -21/2143

This from MLBTR... Here’s more from Kepner: Shortening the regular season has garnered consideration during negotiations, but the schedule will remain at 162 games in the next agreement. In order to ease the players’ workload, the league and the union could agree to lengthen the season from 183 days to 187, per Kepner. Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle reported earlier this month that expanding rosters from 25 to 26 players was a possibility, and that’s likely to come to fruition, according to Kepner. Moreover, 40-man rosters in September will unsurprisingly go by the wayside in favor of a 28- or 29-man limit. The $189MM luxury-tax threshold is set to increase, though it’s unknown how much it’ll rise. That change will have a positive effect on big-spending teams that have been reluctant to exceed the $189MM figure. Bumping the number up from $189MM isn’t ideal for teams that have lesser budgets, of course, but Kepner argues that it’s not necessarily cause for despair. Since the current CBA took effect after the 2011 season, 21 of the majors’ 30 teams have made the playoffs, Kepner points out. Owners continue pushing for the implementation of an international draft, but the MLBPA is “deeply skeptical,” Kepner writes. ESPN’s Buster Olney reported in October that a 10-round proposal was on the table for March 2018.

The day the trade was made, I drove to my brother-in-law's house and proclaimed, "The Sox just made a trade that would finally win us a ring!". He said, "who did we get?" I said, "We traded Nomar for Cabrera." He said, "Who's he?" I told him he was a great defensive SS.

To me, Bogey's defense at SS is no where near what Betts has been at his new positions. It's apples and oranges. I'm still not sure if not moving Bogey to 3B for good was the right choice, and it has nothing to do with Iggy. He's still not above average (16th in top 30 UZR/150 this year).

Vaz has not proven he can't hit. There's still time to get to be an average hitting catcher. What's the average catcher hit like? Team catcher OPS in 2016: #10 .738 #15 .703 #20 .664 Top 35 catchers in MLB this year (250+ PAs): #15 .733 #20 .702 11 of the bottom 35 catchers had an OPS at .631 or below. If you go to 300+ PAs, there were only 24 MLB catchers who qualified. 10 of those 24 catchers had an OPS at .711 or lower. You don't have to be a great hitting catcher to be a starter in MLB.

Oh, I get why they made the trade. It certainly made us a much better team on paper for 2.5 more years. I like the six starters we have right now. All six had a top 30 half season this year. Porcello nearly had two top 30 half seasons. I don't think an ace is our top priority, but I do think that when a guy like Sale comes up, we should more than kick the tires. I wish we had Espi to add to the package, as I don't think Pomeranz would fit into their plans.

I stopped reading DS and others long ago as well. I've said i'm not sure if it was better or worse than the media made it seem like, but Tito was let go, and I doubt DS had anything to do with that. I happen to think it was worse than it appeared. The cell phone call, watching the lack of energy in the dugout and on the field. Hardly anybody was rooting for others. It was sad.

One example how clubhouse chemistry took a back seat.

With the Yankees involved in the Beltran sweepstakes, I'm worried how high his cost will rise, but he seems like the best solution. Beltran can play LF in NL parks and maybe vs tough LHPs. With EE, either HanRam or EE will be on the bench in NL parks. IT's not a huge deal, but it is a factor.

Good to hear your input. I do think the Pomeranz trade pretty much stopped out search for a true ace. One morere ason I disliked the trade. I agree. I think we wait to see what the luxury tax limit will be and act accordingly. Maybe we sign Beltran and G Holland and wait to the deadline for any major trades.

There certainly was a big difference on how Betts handles both position changes than how Bogey did.

True enough, and the pitchers didn't seem to care a lick. There was no fire in the dugout. No energy. It's sad that it ultimately led to Tito's departure.

I noticed long ago. I noticed with Nomar too. His flashy twirling throws from the hole were a mirage. I fell for the mirage, myself, for the first couple years, but he was a liability on defense. The numbers backit up. Bringing in Cabrera to replace Nomar was (to me) what put us over the top. It was a major reason we won our first ring in decades.