moonslav59

I couldn't get the link to work. It's are for an adult to radically change who he is.

I'm fine with this order: 1. Pedro 2. VTek & Lowe 3. Dodger Dump But, they are pretty close in my eyes.

I never understood what happened with Beckett. People's personalities usually don't change drastically overnight. Josh was a fierce competitor for many years. He was on pace for becoming one of baseball's all time best playoff SP'ers. Maybe it was the others who poisoned Beckett.

Napoli's bonuses put him over $8M.

But, we'd likely be paying most of CC and JB's contracts.

With AGon, CC and Beckett on the 2013 roster, it is not highly likely we'd signed Vic or Napoli.

Well, would you liked to have had CC and Beckett on our roster all those years? CC still has a year to go! YUCK! Look, I realize the benefits are hard to quantify, but it doesn't take a genius to know we were able to add several good players along with the bad with the money saved. Our budget has never been limitless.

I get that aspect and I said so myself. One could make a list of our worst signings and claim it was a break even trade. We won a ring because of the trade. I'm certain of that.

4 games do matter, but an MVP gets up 4-5 times a game for maybe 25 PAs every 5 games. A SP'er can face more batters than that over the same period. Just because they are all bunched up in one game every 5 days, doesn't make them any less important. I'm glad you brought up Gibson and McClain, because although they both had tremendous seasons, the whole league was a "pitcher's league", so they did not dominate their peers as much as Pedro did. I submit that Pedro and maddux deserved the MVP award more than they did. Best ERA+ (ERA adjusted to the league norm and park factors) since 1966 (50 years): 291 Pedro (2000) 271 Maddux (1994) 260 Madduz (1995) 258 Gibson (1968) 243 Pedro (1999) 229 Gooden (1985) 226 Clemens (2005) 222 Clemens (1997), Greinke (2015) 219 Pedro (1997) 215 Arieta (2015) 215 K Brown (1996) 211 Pedro (2003). Clemens (1990) 208 Guidry (1978) 205 Greinke (2009) 202 Pedro (2002) Pedro has got 5 of the 17 most dominating seasons in the last 50 years. No MVPs. That's just plain wrong. When you can dominate a league with 291 ERA+, you should be a unanimous MVP. He finished 5th. Jason Giambi won the award in a year 4 guys in the AL had 41-43 HRs, 132-143 RBIs and an OPS between 1.026 and 1.034 (Giambi was 1.123 - not even 2nd best). A 291 OPS+ means Pedro was 191% better than the league norm the same year Giambi didn't dominate his peers at all. Giambi got 3 times the total points in voting that Pedro got. Giambi's OPS+ was 187, which means he was 87% better than the norm. 191% better than norm vs 87% better than norm. No contest. These awards are shams.

A SP'er who starts 33 games usually faces 100-150 more batters than the MVP has PAs. I'm not buying that argument. Anybody who doesn't think Pedro was the MVP does not value pitching enough. He was clearly the MVP. When you compare his numbers to the league norm back then, it blows you away! He dominated in the steroid era.

Well, if you let me select the player to reach $265M, I could maybe reach a 53.8 WAR before all is said and done. I won't argue against the Pedro trade being the best. He's the reason I said the trade "may be" not "is" the best Sox trade in my lifetime. Also, for those who count rings, we got one with Pedro and one with the players acquired after the AGon trade, but we still could get more. WAR 6.3 Victorino (2013-2015) $39M 5.2 Porcello (2016) $20M 6.2M Uehara (2013-2016)$27M 3.9 Napoli (2013)$5M +$3M bonus 3.4 Drew (2013) $9.5M 1.1 Young (2016) $6.5M This is only $120M that brought us $26.1 WAR. If Porcello keeps racking up 5+ WAR seasons, we could add 15 WAR there for another $60M. I realize I cherry-picked the very best WAR per dollar players, and I did not subtract AGon's 11.0 WAR (2013-2016), so by WAR, the Pedro deal might look better, but what about this? 51.9 WAR Pedro (1998-2004 with Boston) -23.8 Carl Pavano -6.9 Tony Armas Jr. 21.2 Total

Hitters have their own awards too. Silver Slugger for Hitters Gold Glove for fielders Cy Young for pitchers MVP for most valauble player. Last I checked, pitchers were players.

There's no doubt that trade opened the window for us to sign players that led to a ring and have helped build the team we have right now as well as into the future. We also trade DLR & Webster for Miley who morphed into CSmith, so we do still have a player to show for the trade... certainly not a Pedro or VTek, but still...

That will never happen as long as even just one voter excludes pitchers from MVP voting.

David Ortiz finished 6th and had one first place vote. Only 4 players got a 1st place vote.

I never said you said I did. Nah, nah!

Nope. Maybe Castillo would be a better fit, but it doesn't help our luxury tax budget.

One could argue we pissed away the $265M saved by signing Dempster, Castillo, Pablo, Napoli (the second time) and paying Craig's contract. One could also argue we spent it on Napoli (the first time), Vic, Moncada's bonus, Uehara's contract and extension and HanRam and/or Porcello's extension. Take a little from each list and the trade was a great one.

I never said Theo was.

I was thinking Pablo would DH some as VMart turns 106.

You may choose to believe the budget is limitless, but plenty of evidence goes against your theory. We're still saving money on that deal. We were able to sign Napoli, Vic, Dempster and pay for Uehara. One could argue we wasted the money on Castillo and Pablo, but the fact is, we gained money that was spent elsewhere (good and bad). The Pedro trade and the VTek-Lowe trades were great, and that's why I said the Dodger trade "may" have been the best, but I think Napoli and Vic had as much to do with us winning as Lowe and VTek, but that's debatable. The loss of all that salary has been a gift that just keeps giving. The Dodgers still owe AGon $43M over the next two years. Crawford is still owed over $21M for next year. Imagine if we still had him! Becket earned $34M the next two years after the trade. Yeah, we paid the Dodgers alomst $4M a year for 3 years. In total, the deal saved us about $265M. Surely, we would not have signed all the players we did after that trade had we been saddled with those contracts.

I know Anibal Sanchez has fallen on hard times, but would the Tigers take Pablo and some cash for him?

That would make September less flexible than it already is. I could see a freeze at 28 or 27, or just make it 26 or 27 and keep the rules of roster changes the same as during the year.

I agree, but he still did not perform as expected for the Dodgers. It was a great trade by Ben. Napoli actually had a much better WAR than AGon in 2013 (3.9 to 2.9). From 2013 to 2016, the 1B team WAR has been this: BOS 11.9 LAD 10.5 When you figure in the savings we got financially, which allowed us to sign other players, I still maintain it may have been the best Sox trade in my lifetime.

1) It hasn't been agreed on yet. 2) I think we may see most teams sticking with the same amount of pitchers but will add a specialist (PR'er, defensive whiz, PH'er type).