moonslav59

4 games do matter, but an MVP gets up 4-5 times a game for maybe 25 PAs every 5 games. A SP'er can face more batters than that over the same period. Just because they are all bunched up in one game every 5 days, doesn't make them any less important. I'm glad you brought up Gibson and McClain, because although they both had tremendous seasons, the whole league was a "pitcher's league", so they did not dominate their peers as much as Pedro did. I submit that Pedro and maddux deserved the MVP award more than they did. Best ERA+ (ERA adjusted to the league norm and park factors) since 1966 (50 years): 291 Pedro (2000) 271 Maddux (1994) 260 Madduz (1995) 258 Gibson (1968) 243 Pedro (1999) 229 Gooden (1985) 226 Clemens (2005) 222 Clemens (1997), Greinke (2015) 219 Pedro (1997) 215 Arieta (2015) 215 K Brown (1996) 211 Pedro (2003). Clemens (1990) 208 Guidry (1978) 205 Greinke (2009) 202 Pedro (2002) Pedro has got 5 of the 17 most dominating seasons in the last 50 years. No MVPs. That's just plain wrong. When you can dominate a league with 291 ERA+, you should be a unanimous MVP. He finished 5th. Jason Giambi won the award in a year 4 guys in the AL had 41-43 HRs, 132-143 RBIs and an OPS between 1.026 and 1.034 (Giambi was 1.123 - not even 2nd best). A 291 OPS+ means Pedro was 191% better than the league norm the same year Giambi didn't dominate his peers at all. Giambi got 3 times the total points in voting that Pedro got. Giambi's OPS+ was 187, which means he was 87% better than the norm. 191% better than norm vs 87% better than norm. No contest. These awards are shams.

A SP'er who starts 33 games usually faces 100-150 more batters than the MVP has PAs. I'm not buying that argument. Anybody who doesn't think Pedro was the MVP does not value pitching enough. He was clearly the MVP. When you compare his numbers to the league norm back then, it blows you away! He dominated in the steroid era.

Well, if you let me select the player to reach $265M, I could maybe reach a 53.8 WAR before all is said and done. I won't argue against the Pedro trade being the best. He's the reason I said the trade "may be" not "is" the best Sox trade in my lifetime. Also, for those who count rings, we got one with Pedro and one with the players acquired after the AGon trade, but we still could get more. WAR 6.3 Victorino (2013-2015) $39M 5.2 Porcello (2016) $20M 6.2M Uehara (2013-2016)$27M 3.9 Napoli (2013)$5M +$3M bonus 3.4 Drew (2013) $9.5M 1.1 Young (2016) $6.5M This is only $120M that brought us $26.1 WAR. If Porcello keeps racking up 5+ WAR seasons, we could add 15 WAR there for another $60M. I realize I cherry-picked the very best WAR per dollar players, and I did not subtract AGon's 11.0 WAR (2013-2016), so by WAR, the Pedro deal might look better, but what about this? 51.9 WAR Pedro (1998-2004 with Boston) -23.8 Carl Pavano -6.9 Tony Armas Jr. 21.2 Total

Hitters have their own awards too. Silver Slugger for Hitters Gold Glove for fielders Cy Young for pitchers MVP for most valauble player. Last I checked, pitchers were players.

There's no doubt that trade opened the window for us to sign players that led to a ring and have helped build the team we have right now as well as into the future. We also trade DLR & Webster for Miley who morphed into CSmith, so we do still have a player to show for the trade... certainly not a Pedro or VTek, but still...

That will never happen as long as even just one voter excludes pitchers from MVP voting.

David Ortiz finished 6th and had one first place vote. Only 4 players got a 1st place vote.

I never said you said I did. Nah, nah!

Nope. Maybe Castillo would be a better fit, but it doesn't help our luxury tax budget.

One could argue we pissed away the $265M saved by signing Dempster, Castillo, Pablo, Napoli (the second time) and paying Craig's contract. One could also argue we spent it on Napoli (the first time), Vic, Moncada's bonus, Uehara's contract and extension and HanRam and/or Porcello's extension. Take a little from each list and the trade was a great one.

I never said Theo was.

I was thinking Pablo would DH some as VMart turns 106.

You may choose to believe the budget is limitless, but plenty of evidence goes against your theory. We're still saving money on that deal. We were able to sign Napoli, Vic, Dempster and pay for Uehara. One could argue we wasted the money on Castillo and Pablo, but the fact is, we gained money that was spent elsewhere (good and bad). The Pedro trade and the VTek-Lowe trades were great, and that's why I said the Dodger trade "may" have been the best, but I think Napoli and Vic had as much to do with us winning as Lowe and VTek, but that's debatable. The loss of all that salary has been a gift that just keeps giving. The Dodgers still owe AGon $43M over the next two years. Crawford is still owed over $21M for next year. Imagine if we still had him! Becket earned $34M the next two years after the trade. Yeah, we paid the Dodgers alomst $4M a year for 3 years. In total, the deal saved us about $265M. Surely, we would not have signed all the players we did after that trade had we been saddled with those contracts.

I know Anibal Sanchez has fallen on hard times, but would the Tigers take Pablo and some cash for him?

That would make September less flexible than it already is. I could see a freeze at 28 or 27, or just make it 26 or 27 and keep the rules of roster changes the same as during the year.

I agree, but he still did not perform as expected for the Dodgers. It was a great trade by Ben. Napoli actually had a much better WAR than AGon in 2013 (3.9 to 2.9). From 2013 to 2016, the 1B team WAR has been this: BOS 11.9 LAD 10.5 When you figure in the savings we got financially, which allowed us to sign other players, I still maintain it may have been the best Sox trade in my lifetime.

1) It hasn't been agreed on yet. 2) I think we may see most teams sticking with the same amount of pitchers but will add a specialist (PR'er, defensive whiz, PH'er type).

Ben's legacy in Boston has improved a bit. The Porcello trade and extension has helped. The big Dodger trade that helped us dump oodles of dead contract cost us AGon, but has anybody noticed how AGon has done after the trade? OPS by club: .888 SDP .895 BOS .807 LAD

Is it true the Yanks will pay $5.5M of McCann's remaining contract?

The Stros also signed Reddick ($52M/4).

And, it would allow for more RP'er use during the season, if the 26th man is a pitcher, or it could allow for a pinch runner type, 3rd catcher or other specialty type players.

I really like Holt. I think he has high value. However, with our all DH Papi retiring, and Swihart able to play LF in a pinch, I don't see Holt as the number 2 guy anywhere on the field next year, except maybe 3B, if Pablo flops and Moncada takes too long to get ready. I also think Hernandez is pretty close to Holt on the 3B depth chart anyways. I'm not for handing Holt away, but I think in a package, he may be enough to sweeten a deal "just enough" to get who we want.

Talk on the CBA negotiaitons: There has reportedly already been consideration of going from 25 to 26 players on the active roster. The new rule under consideration might limit clubs to 28 players for any given game during the final full month of the season, with additional provisions allowing that group to be modified — but not every single day.

Just listened to the soxprospect.com podcast with Alex Speier. http://news.soxprospects.com/2016/11/podcast-ep-109-alex-speier-on-ranking.html His Sox Top 10: 1) Beni 2) Moncada 3) Devers 4) Kopech 5) Groome 6) Travis 7) Dubon 8) Basabe 9) Dalbec 10) Raudes Says top 5 are "basically unmatched in MLB right now". The fall off after Dalbec is "considerable" due mostly to recent trades and loss of two international classes. "The stack of trade chips has dwindled..." One concern with Beni is the 4 injuries that have caused himt o miss some time (including his delayed start in the minors due to injury. Devers took a big step forward on defense this year, but may not be ready in 2017. Maybe Moncada will be moved to the OF. On why he has Kopech ahead of Groome: "Some scouts, after watching him pitch, have said Kopech is the best pitcher they have ever scene...One scout has Kopech as the Sox number 2 prospect...Both have high ceilings. Groome may have more ways to get there, but since he's younger, there's more ways not to get there." On Raudes at #10 who struggles to reach 90 mph: "I have him very close to Johnson. Johnson's stuff has always been fringy. He needs a full compliment of pitches working. He's a question mark. Raudes is very creative with a three pitch mix. His delivery can disrupt hitters a la Tiant. Willingness to attack the strike zone with 65 grade command. He's showing average stuff, but there's a good chance something moves up." (Compares him to Ervin Santana.) "Dubon is a legitimate SS.... whereas Hernandez is likely a utility guy...may be best suited at 2B. " Dubon may become a super utility guy as he may be able to play the OF too. Hernandez and Dubon both have impressive hit tools. Marco as a lefty hitter is a plus. If Bogey got hurt for the whole year, the Sox may go with Dubon over everyone else. It may take a while to adjust. By the second half, Dubon should be the number 2 SS on the depth chart. Marrero has dropped off a cliff. He had the worst OPS in the minors and his glove doesn't even look plus anymore. Dalbec "jumped his status" from the draft. Chatham looks like he has a good chance to develop into a MLB starter. The draft looks good as a half dozen players still look to be "in the mix".

Agreed, but I'll bet he gets traded somewhere.