moonslav59

More signings today almost all are below the MLBTR projections.

Or, after his 2004 ALCS? (14H and 9 BB in 13 IP vs the Yanks with a 6.23 ERA) Or, his WS with the Phillies in '09? (9H & 4 BB in 10 IP with a 6.30 ERA) His playoff ERA is about 50 points higher than his career ERA. Nobody is tearing him down over 96 scattered playoff innings... rightfully so.

I disagree. We all saw the horrible results from Price's 3 inning outing. It is what it is. It sucked. He sucked. My problem is that some judge his total season based on that 3 inning sample size. Others may included his previous scattered small sample size playoff opportunities and judge based on that. That's a little better than just 3 IP. When I say "judge" I mean, I'm okay with people saying he sucked in that game, or he has sucked in almost all of his playoff games. My issue is when blanket statements are made like "He was an absolute failure". Or, "He's a 5th starter now" Or, comparing him to Buch. Those are more definitive proclamations that imply that this is who he is. His whole body of work is taken down a few notches based on one or a collection of scattered tiny sample sizes. Now, we have Slasher arbitrarily placing extra importance on opening day and home opening day. I could arbitrarily say the most important Price games last year were his last 14 starts, where he pitched poorly just twice.

My Packers went through a very long stretch of pathetic play. The Reggie White signing turned things around.

It's not a sign of weakness to admit when you are wrong. Quite the opposite, in fact.

You guys deserve all the acclaim. It's not easy staying that good for all these years in an era of parity. Someone asked why people hate the Pats. It's the same with the Yanks: you guys win too much! Best of luck, until you meet my Pack. FEAR the PACK!

Price was line of the 10 best pitchers in the AL. Yeah, 7th in WAR (in the AL) and 8th in FFIP (see below). If his post-season troubles are attributable to anything, it's probably that he throws over 200 IP every year and is more worn out come October. ... I'm not judging him or anyone else on small sample sizes. I was just saying his perception took a big hit over those measly 3 IP vs CLE. His very slow start out of the gate really hurt his final numbers, but the numbers (other than WAR and FIP metrics) showed a pretty significant downturn last year. 15th in the AL in ERA- at 90. 12th in WHIP at 1.20 ERA- 2015: 60 2016: 90 WHIP 2015: 1.08 2016: 1.20 WAR 2015: 6.4 2016: 4.5 FIP 2015: 2.78 2016: 3.60 This all contributed to the feeling that he missed expectations by a considerable amount BEFORE that one 3 inning playoff appearance. I'm optimistic. He came on strong after those fist 10 starts of 2016. I don't put much value or devalue on any 3 IP performance, and after 230 IP last season, one could say it might have been fatigue related and not some choke complex. It would be nice to try and reduce his IP this year, but with a pen like ours, many posters are looking to get more IP out of our starters- not less (thanks to Sale replacing Buch & Co.

come on notin. he gave up FIVE earned runs in 3 innings. And, that's what makes him an absolute failure?

Back to Sox baseball... Now that teams are signing their arb players before reaching the arbs, here's a look at our team leading 10 arb players (with MLBTR's arb estimates): Red Sox (10) Fernando Abad (5.073) – $2.0MM Robbie Ross Jr. (4.100) – $1.8MM Joe Kelly (4.029) – $2.6MM Drew Pomeranz (4.013) – $4.7MM Tyler Thornburg (3.057) – $2.2MM Brock Holt (3.052) – $1.7MM Xander Bogaerts (3.042) – $5.7MM **Brandon Workman (3.018) – $600K Jackie Bradley Jr. (2.150) – $3.3MM Sandy Leon (2.149) – $1.3MM The Mets also have 10 arbs and I think a couple teams have 9 players. **Workman already signed for $635K.

It's MVP that needs to apologize. I never used the term he claimed he was making fun of me for using.

http://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/13747-Official-NFL-thread See for yourself: I never used the word "cheatriots". I answered a question about why people hate the Patriots, and as a Packer fan, my reply upset the sensitivities of Patriots fans rather like Yankee fans get twisted up when we say they "bought championships" or call them "cheaters". I never said "cheatriots" but somebody here is still sticking to his delusion.

Good point, but the perception left was a bad one. I don't think his season was as bad it it appeared, but I'm hopeful he does better this year.

Lots of players are signing to avoid arbs. Tis the season. Will DD follow Theo and Ben's pattern of just about always avoiding arbs? Seems like numbers are coming in a little lower than MLBTR's estimates, so maybe Abad will be cheaper than the $2M they projected.

My bad. He doesn't really fit the Buch jello mold of disappointment. He did play parts of 5 seasons with us and 3 more after he left.

Great point, and top of it all, he started out super slowly and ended with a dud playoff game. For a good 20 games in between he was pretty close to what most of us expected. Now, give us that for 30 David!

I'm feeling more and more hopeful. I hate to get my expectations too high, but there's more hope than there was last fall.

Nice backpeddle.

>>>>

Show where I said "Cheatriots". I'm not denying I said they cheated, so stop implying I'm doing that now. I clearly said I never used that term. You still think I did, when it was actually you. You're a clown!

Here's the facts... (I can't believe you still actually can't comprehend basic English and logic.) Poster reads a poster saying that he caught grief for saying last fall that "Sandoval is in the mix at 3B" and translates to "Poster is now saying he wanted Sandoval to start last fall, and I'm patting myself on the back because I got it right." Poster reads, "It's amazing how so many people's opinions have changed on Pablo since last fall" and then translates it to poster is "patting himself on the back for calling the Pablo thing early and you clowns have all changed your opinion while I, the genius, have not" Fact: I listed Pablo/Shaw as our 3Bmen last fall and got crap for even mentioning him as an option or as "being in the mix" I also continuously suggested we trade for Frazier or others to try and get him out of the mix. Your logic is so twisted, you think suggesting a trade, so Pablo would not longer be "in the mix" means I believed he was not in the mix anymore, or that logically suggesting a trade magically takes that player out of any consideration for winning the job. It's clown logic twisted into so-called "FACTS". Recently, I make a blanket obvious statement that people's opinions have changed on Pablo. It wasn't meant to show anything other than obvious aspects of fans perception of Pablo. Here's the simple post- no bragging even remotely implied: What a turn around for Panda on fan opinions and expectations from last spring to now. I remember I caught a lot of flack last fall for just mentioning Pablo being "in the mix" at 3B or DH for 2017. Now, he's basically all we've got, and posters are beginning to believe he can be productive again. A "monster year" might be pushing it, but my expectations are certainly growing every time I see a new pic of him. \ Doji responded by saying people's opinions have not changed. I responded: Go back and read people's opinions last fall. When I just listed Pablo as a possible competitor at 3B for the 2017 season, hardly anyone agreed and many laughed or berated the idea. Some opinions have changed. Things have changed since last fall. We have no Travis Shaw. We've seen the photos of a much thinner Pablo. Approaching spring lends itself to optimism. Fan and media opinions have changed. I see no doubt in that fact. Maybe not everyone, but many. I'm sure even the strongest Pablo supporter (not me) has doubts. This does not imply or say that I ever wanted or thought of Pablo as the starter for 2017 last fall. I mentioned he was in the mix and people argued he wasn't. MVP claims, and still is, that I am now saying I wanted Pablo to be the starter last fall, which if it was true, would mean I am lying, but it's not true. I never said it then, and I never said I said it then recently. You relied with this: "Man, you just love patting yourself on the back over and over again even when you're incorrect about the facts." Fact: There's no patting my own back. I wasn't bragging about simply listing a $19M player as in the mix for 2017 3B (at least on opening day before Moncada is ready). I didn't even express an opinion, in my mind, at the time. I thought it was a fact. Pablo/Shaw with Hernandez, Holt and Rutledge as 3B depth. I was surprised when many argued Pablo's name shouldn't even be mentioned, or that he should be DFA'd with us paying all the cost. Fact: I never said that last fall I said I wanted Pablo to start. You said I did, but I never did or even came close to implying I did. Your facts are not facts. They are twisted distortions of some kind of warped interpretation of what I wrote last fall and recently. Now, out of left field, you claim I am claiming to be the "leading proponent of Sandoval getting playing time." What a joke! Pablo is the starter right now. If I had my way, we'd never had signed him. I'd have traded him for a sucky pitcher like Shields before we squeezed ourselves into having basically just him and no spending space or prospects I'd be willing to trade.

So, it was you who first used the term "Cheatriots" on this site. Too funny!

Some one asked on the NFL thread: Today a question came to my mind? Why do so many people hate the Pats when it is so much more fun enjoying their repeated excellence and domination. I answered light-heartedly (during the whole random argumnet thing going on)... possible answers: 1) Their wins are just random occurrences. 2) They continually cheat. I'm a Packer fan back from my childhood days living in the shadow or County Stadium in Milwaukee. It was all meant in fun, but there are examples or accusations of cheating that non Patriot fans have clung to or used in jest. Someone later provided evidence that my Pack has "cheated" more than the Pats since like 1920. I'm fine with the ribbing, but at least get the facts straight. The funny part is, he accused me of ignoring the facts while continuously getting them wrong himself. Go back and read the thread. I never used the term he attributes to me.' http://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/13747-Official-NFL-thread/page2

Plus, he got it all wrong. I never used the term. Never heard of it before MVP used it today.

You have a poor memory. You continuously misrepresent what I said or implied. I called them cheaters, but never used that term. I doubt I'll get an apology for this lie also.

They all disappointed us (or the teams we traded them to), but they do belong in a separate class from Buch..