moonslav59

That's a little deceptive, as Lackey's contract had just 1.3 yrs remaining when traded.

The philosophy of not signing 30+ year old pitchers was not Ben's idea either. Ben was given a good team with a few very good young players but little farm depth. He had expiring contractsand many holes to fill. Had Pablo hit at 80% of his career norm as he entered his prime and HRam hit like 2016 in 2015, Ben might still be here. Ben was able to dump CC and Beckett, and as it turned out, dumping AGon wasn't bad either. Napoli actually did better one year. I loved Theo, but look at some of the guys Ben inherited... Crawford Beckett Youkilis Dice-K Ellsbury Buchholz Salty Sweeney Bard Aviles Was Middy still here? I still think the Dodger dump was a top 3 or 4 Sox trade of all time. Of course, ben haters will say LL did that trade. That trade was essential to the 2013 ring. Too bad the rest of the money saved was wasted on Pablo & HRam, instead of Lester or Scherzer.

I might put the Cubs 5th, Sox 6th and Yanks 7th, but poor health may do us in.

Is Justin Haley a 6/7th starter candidate? He came back to us on rule 5 last year and hasn't looked too bad.

Erod's injuries have almost always been the knee. Hopefully, the surgery will fix the reoccurring issue once and for all. Yes, with Elias in the pen, it looks like Johnson and Velazquez will have to fill the 5 slot until Wright returns. If both do poorly, we'll get 5-7 starts from them. That should be enough time for Wright to return. Then, he gets 3-4 starts (at least and hopefully) to bridge us to ERod's return. I realize this is a tight set-up, and I've said I'm fine with signing vet depth at no added cost, but cutting into our $4M remaining spending budget right now, would be too dangerous. How much of that $4M are you willing to spend right now to add a 6th or 7th starter?

I was kind of hoping we gave Elias one more shot at a starter role, but... Former Mariners starter Roenis Elias has become somewhat of an afterthought since the Red Sox acquired him prior to 2016, but the left-hander could reemerge this year out of the bullpen. Elias is now working as a reliever, owing in part to a newfound commitment to using a sidearm delivery against same-sided hitters, per Chad Jennings of the Boston Herald. The only lefty reliever on Boston’s projected roster is Robby Scott, which could help give Elias a path back to the majors. After appearing in 51 games and making 49 starts from 2014-15 in Seattle, with which he pitched to a 3.97 ERA across 279 innings, Elias has only thrown eight frames in two years with the Red Sox. The 29-year-old spent nearly all of 2016-17 with Triple-A Pawtucket.

Minor league- non 40 man roster depth, yes, or perhaps a 40 man roster addition with options remaining, but I doubt we upgrade, right now, with anything significant. Right now, we have 8 guys worth starting or giving a chance... Sale Pom Price Porcello ERod (DL) Wright (DL) Johnson Velazquez plus another two that might surprise... Elias Beeks The $4M or so we have remaining on the luxury tax budget before major penalties kick in can be better spent in mis summer on a pro-rated contract of a much better pitcher than we can sign now. I think that's the plan. Give our 8-10 starters a chance first. Try to get by with whht we got until Wright and ERod return, and maybe we won't even need more depth. If we do, we'll know by May or June, and we can look to add a starter in June or July-- a much better one that does not put us over the $40M limit. Even with ERod and Wright out, we still have 6 guys worth starting, at least for 2-3 games for 2 of them. That buys us enough time for one of Wright or ERod to return, and if not, maybe we try Elias or Beeks until one is healthy. It does suck to have to go starter hunting in May, and that is a possibility, butI have some faith in the 8-10 guys we have being able to hold us over until summer (or longer). I'm fine with adding soome minor league vet depth.

Certainly, Ben did enough or failed to do enough to be critical about. He made some serious blunders, and his FA signings were major failures. The Lester fiasco was horrific. That being said, I think he had a plan. He aimed to build the farm- no, not by high draft picks gained from losing but by great international signings that Ben bashers ignore. IT WASN'T THE DRAFTS! Look, I hated the Pablo signing and was not happy about the HRam signing either, but there was a glut of pitchers coming on the market the following year, and I think his plan was to boost the offense with Pablo & HRam and then sign a pitcher the following year. It's not like our offense didn't need fixing, too. The team had major holes that winter- not all due to Ben's mistakes. In hindsight, signing Scherzer (or Lester) would have been much better, but the theory or "philosophy" was not illogical. He chose the wrong FAs. I'm also convinced Ben was not going to hoard prospects and never pull the trigger on a big trade. I think he was going to sign a big pitcher like Price and make a big splash trade for another stud. We'll never know for sure, but we do know he built up the farm without the use of high draft picks coming from finishing in last place before two of his four drafts. Only Beni came from losing.

Fangraphs positional projected rankings: The Sox... 1st RF 5.7 1st DH 2.8 4th 2B 2.9 5th CF 3.6 5th LF 3.2 8th SS 3.5 14th 3B 2.8 20th C 2.0 22nd 1B 1.3 8th SP 15.9 11th RP 3.9 2nd Batting 27.9 8th Pitching 19.8 6th overall 47.7 1. Astros 55.2 2. LAD 50.6 3. NYY 50.0 4. Cubs 49.8 5. CLE 48.7

I guess we have different ideas on what the word "sketchy" means. Sure, there are doubts about just about every pitcher in MLB, but our rotation is solid... one of the best. Fangraphs projects us as #8 with only 3 other teams ahead of us having 4 pitchers with a 2.5+ WAR.

lol!

I'd be okay with $1M guarantee with an easy $1M in bonuses, but only if we trade away Holt, so our budget stays the same. I think we need to keep some space for a summer trade.

... I'll say it again...you take away those first two picks DD had (because the teams sucked) and how is his drafting record when he's picked in the back of the first round? It's not as good as the cumulative record of Theo and Ben picking there, not even close. ... I agree with you one everything in your post, and I've been known to defend Ben on his farm building. He did, howeer, have some high draft picks and multiple late first round/comp picks. 2012 24 Marrero 31 Johnson 37 Light (3 in the top 37 kind of makes up for no top 10 pick) 2013 7 Ball 45 Stanki 2014 26 Chavis 33 Kopech 67 Travis 2015 7 Beni 2 of his 4 drafts saw him have a top 7 pick. One of the other two he had 3 picks from 24-37. It's not like he always had crappy draft slots. \ Ben was better at international picks than drafting. Espinoza (got us Pom) Moncada (Helped get us Sale) Guerra (helped get Kimbrel) Almonte W Rijo Basabe brothers (helped get Sale and Ziegler) & Castillo

True, but others rose to the occaison last year, when Price had issues.

In Luxury Tax Dollars... Just 2 guaranteed Contract in 2020: $31M Price (assuming no opt out) $13.75M Pedey Arbs: Betts 3 of 3 JBJ 4 of 4 ERod 3 of 4 Carson 3 of 3 Vaz 3 of 3 Wright 3 of 3 Workman 3 of 3 Barnes 2 of 3 Swihart 2 of 4 Leon 4 of 4 Hembree 2 of 3 Beni 1 of 3 Scott 1 of 3 Elias 2 of 3 Must replace: JDM Porcello Kimbrel Sale Pom Nunez Moreland ERod Thornburg Holt HRam

What a messed up situation for several big named players.

How much is that draft pick compensation worth? Certainly it has value, but Mosse was projected to make mega bucks, and he ended up with peanuts. If one counts the projection as valid, clearly the lost draft pick is not even close to the value disparity between what Moose signed for vs his projected value. Moreland is projected to be on the bench. Moose could have played 1B better than HRam (on O and D), or he could have played 3B, vastly improving our IF defense, with Devers playing DH/3B. With the JD money, we could have signed other bargain playeers, icluding a solid SP'er. Again, I'm not bashing DD for signing JD. I liked the signing. All I'm saying is that after all these bargain signings are competed, we may look back and say "what if?" Posters did this with Ben, and are still doing it years now- years later. I'm not sure why it should be out of bounds to just discuss the what ifs on this year's signings.

It reminds me of the Rollie Finger & Joe Rudi time. Then, the dream bubble was punctured by Bowie Kuhn.

I seriously doubt we go over the maximum penatly limit, but if these last free agents are going to sign for peanuts, maybe signing one would outweigh the tax and pool money/draft penalties.

I went out of my way to say I like the DD moves and that hindsight is how GMs are often graded. I am not being critical, except for the Moreland signing, which I hated all along. It wasn't because I knew Moose would sign for peanuts. It's because I thought we could do better. Hindisght shows we could have. I guess only the Ben bashers can use hindsight with impunity. .

I mentioned it was hindsight, but for me, I hated the Moreland signing the second it happened. That's not hindisght. I was also one of the only the sign Moose supporters.

1 year. Looks like he's hoping things change next season.

Kimmi was against the Sale trade and not really gung ho over JD.

I guess we didn't need a DH, that's why we signed JD to play the OF, right? (Note: I loved the Sale trade and liked the JD signing.)

So, one ring- two cliffs.