moonslav59

I think it you look back at the history of the playoffs, since the WC was started, and I haven't looked, teams "near .500 who are still "in it" at the end of August are sometimes more in a divisional race than a WC race. For example, the Pirates are 5.5 back of the Cubs and have a record of 58-63. They are 9 back in the wild card. However, the Royals and Twins are hanging around the .500 mark and are 6 games or less behind the Guardians for the Central Division play off berth but only a game behind the Angels for the last WC berth.

I am convinced Ben was going to trade some of those prospects- probably several of the ones DD traded away. There's no way any one knows whether the team "identified" those they were going to trade and keep. I'm sure every organization has a priority of who they'd prefer to keep, and it may differ from one GM to the next or between Ben and a GM looking to make a trade. On Henry vs DD's "commitment, you are probably right, but I'm sure DD's philosophy and input helps steer Henry in a significant way, even if it's Henry steering DD in a more influential way.

I can understand if you disagree, but really? You can't even "understand" why someone would give at least partial credit to Ben for giving DD the pieces needed to trade for Kimbrel and Sale? Manuel Margot - Ben signed him as an Int'l FA for just $800K Javier Guerra- Ben signed him as an Int'l FA for $250K Carlos Asuaje- Ben drafted him in the 11h round 2013 Logan Allen- Ben drafted him in the 8th round 2015 Yoan Moncada- Ben signed him as an Int'l FA for $31.5M Michael Kopech- Ben drafted him in the 1st round 2014 Luis Basabe- Ben signed him as an Int'l FA for $450K Victor Diaz- Ben signed him as an Int'l FA If DD had drafted or signed these guys AND then traded him, I'd give him 100% of the credit. If Thornburg sucks and Travis Shaw and Dubon go on to have great careers, I'll blame DD 100%. I won't blame Ben. If Shaw and Dubon did horribly and Thornburg did great, I'd give DD almost all of the credit for dumping over-rated prospects for something useful. It's the nature of GM evaluation.

Ben quickly identified Betts, Bogey and JBj as keepers, aggressively promoted them, and watched them thrive- all while many fans and posters wanted us to trade them for "premium quality stuff" like Cole Hamels & Ryan Howard. Nobody here advocated keeping all our kids and never making legitimate upgrading deals. Some are fine with all the deals made, but realize we sacrificed some of the extended future by making all those deals in a short period of time. Some love the deals and think there's nothing to worry about concerning the future or that it is futile to worry. Some think it's fine to try and put a winning team out there this year but to try and balance that commitment with an equal commitment towards 2020 and beyond- or at least close to equal. Some might be in between or somewhere outside the categories I mentioned.

I did credit Duke for some of our 2004 & 2007 championship wins. It doesn't have to be 100% one GM.

If they could have eliminated half the "stupid" plays, we'd be highly out-weighed.

August OPS 1.295 Beni 1.002 Devers .963 Young .929 Moreland .873 Nunez .851 Vaz .722 HRam .713 Betts .675 Bogey .583 JBJ .557 Leon .481 Holt (more PAs than Young & Leon)

So, what Sox player has been helped or hurt the most by playing at Fenway this year? Home OPS/Away OPS/ Differential .925 Vaz .482 +443 1.112 Nunez .751 +361 1.179 Devers .885 +294 .752 Leon .601 +151 .815 Moreland .692 +123 .798 Young .691 +107 .806 Pedey .762 +44 .792 HRam' .751 +41 .751 Bogey .726 +25 .754 Betts .837 -81 .753 Beni .864 -111 .661 JBJ .839 -178 As great as our OF is, they play better away!

Yes, because saving just a little money by picking up 3 stiffs for one mega star is not the reason Miami would ever trade GS. They'd want 4-5 players- each with 4-6 years of team control and relatively high ceilings. Including the 3 bums mentioned would mean we'd have to offer 8-10 more prospects plus cash just for them to take them off our hands.

One could look at it like this... Theo's guys (Ben was in the Sox system): Betts JBJ Bogaerts Pedroia Porcello (via Lester via Cespedes) Barnes Workman R Ross (via Ranaudo- Ben's trade) Thornburg (via T Shaw-DD's trade) Kelly (via Lackey) ERod (via A Miller) Ben's guys Sale (via Moncada, Kopech and others) Benintendi Devers Kimbrel (via Margot, Guerra, Asuaje & Allen- DD trade) Pomeranz (via Espinoza- DD trade) HRam & Pablo (via stupidity) C Smith (via Miley, via others) M Hernandez (via Doubront- Ben's trade) Holt (via Melancon) Hembree R Scott S Travis M Chavis B Taylor DD's guys Nunez Reed Price Moreland C Young Boyer Fister J Groome B Mata T Houck C Brennen A Scherff D Flores B Dalbec Now, certainly some credit can and should be given to the GM who traded away another GM's prospects or players.

I'm not sure why it matters what they call it, it's a good idea, IMO. It's better to give two teams a chance than to send an 88-90+ game winner packing early. It often keeps several more teams "in it" much longer. It's good for baseball. We're never going to an 8 team league playoff set-up, and going back to 4 (with 3 divisions) often keeps much better teams out of it.

His bat might be ML ready or very near ready now. He could be a DH option next year, if only we could count on HRam to play 1B (not). We probably should have moved Brentz and Chavis to 1B weeks or months ago.

I have close to zero confidence in Bautista or Granderson. I would not sign Hosmer to more than 2-3 years, so I think that mean bye-bye. Giving Travis (and Chavis or Brentz) a shot at winning the 1B job next spring or during the season is a fine idea, but it better not be the only plan for fixing 1B/DH next year. Signing another Moreland type doesn't satisfy my desires either.

I responded to a post that said we "din not have the pieces" (without Devers) to trade for Gray. I did not say I wanted to trade Groome, Chavis, Mata and Flores for Gray. I have been very clear about my philosophy. I'm not for hoarding prospects. I want a balance. I was against trading 4 prospects for a RP'er and a very high ceiling prospect for a 3/4 slot SP'er. I loved the Sale trade and have suggested trades like that my whole life. I love pitching and defense. I liked Pom and Kimbrel, but I did not think they were worth the prospects we gave up. Kimbrel has done about as I expected, while Pom has done better- but not by a whole lot (in totality). Those two trades certainly helped us be very good for the "window", but I think in totality, we went too far. That does not mean that since I think we have already gone too far, we totally cease looking for opportunities to acquire great pitching, if the price is reasonable. In hindsight, had we not made all those non-Sale trades, amybe we'd have Sale, Quintana and Gray instead of Kimbrel, Thornburg, Pom & circumstance (I had to say it). I'm not saying I'm smarter than Ben & DD. My suggested team might have ended up doing worse than this one will do.

I agree, Young has only DH'd 16 times and HRam has played 1B only 10 times. We've only faced a lefty starter 26 times, though, so the 1B-DH platoon we hoped for has only missed 10 games.

There is a line between agressive and stupid. When they sent JBJ, before I even saw the throw, I said to myself, "they should send him". But I wasn't the 3B coach. If JBJ was out by 30 feet, then one could say that was stupid.

No, I asked why we didn't kick the tires. I loved the Sale trade, because the player received was for multiple years at a cheap cost. I love upgrading the rotation. I was not for other trades that have ended up looking very good so far (Kimbrel & Pom). I would have traded Groome, Chavis, Beeks and Lakin for Gray, but not Mata and Flores. That offer I mentioned was just to prove we "had the pieces".

1) First, you said we didn't have the pieces. Now, you say my offer is an "overpay". 2) I'm not saying I'd give all those 4, but I was just pointing out we "had the pieces" without giving up Devers. 3) I think you can trade Flores, or at least call it a PTBNL and send him later.

"Easy To Slip" It's so easy to slip It's so easy to fall And let your memory drift And do nothin' at all All the love that you missed All the people that you can't recall Do they really exist at all Well my whole world seems so cold today All the magics's gone away And our time together melts away Like the sad melody I play Well I don't want to drift forever In the shadow of your leaving me So I'll light another cigarette And try to remember to forget It's so easy to slip It's so easy to fall And let your memory drift And do nothin' at all All the love that you missed All the people that you can't recall Do they really exist at all -Little Feat

I do feel slightly more hopeful, but not due to anyone's arguments here. I liked our draft, and the rise of Chavis and a few others have been surprising. Devers and Beni have taken the lead on this team, and they will be here beyond 2020. Many others may not be, but those two alone could act as soft mattresses at the bottom of the cliff.

When a guy like Gray comes along and can be had for 3 low, ex- top 100 prospects- two with major injuries, then you have to try hard to acquire him. It's always easy to trade SP'ing, and often when you do, you regret it (B Arroyo). Even this year, we looked to have 6 solid SP'ers and still ended up starting others 21 times and counting. Three of the 6 have under performed and/or been hurt (Wright, Price & Porcello). Gray is under team control for two more (arb) years. His injury history is worrisome, but the guy is an ace when healthy.

"I like heroes that don't get captured."

Even if the idea held some merit, the player(s) would have to be on the roster by Sept 1st to be eligible for the playoff roster. Never going to happen.

LOL! Maybe we can make him into a pitcher.

Do you agree that these are our best and worst positions by value as we look to 2018? Here's how our positions rank by WAR: Rank Position WAR 2 SP 14.5 4 RP 5.3 5 RF 4.2 8 2B 2.3 11 SS 2.4 16 LF 1.7 19 CF 1.9 21 C 0.8 11 out of 15 DH -0.4 26 1B 0.7 27 3B 0.1 Certainly Devers makes 3B look better than 27th best in MLB. I don't see our catching crew as a weakness despite the ranking of 21st out of 30. To me, 1B/DH is clearly our weakness now and looking to 2018.