moonslav59

The plan included being maxed out on the budget and emptied of farm hands available by 2019. Yes, I think we thought we'd still be competitive, but we knew we did not have enough money to "keep getting better". We didn't even stay even. We brought back Eovaldi and Pearce but lost Kimbrel and Kelly. The "plan" forced us into having to choose whicj holes to fill and which holes to roll the dice with.

I don't judge player value based on just their previous 90 game sample size. We have our weak areas, but so do those teams. Think long and hard about what I am about to say: Suppose you were a fan of team A or B and were 1-2 games up on the last WC slot and had these holes, would you still like our chances better than the defending champs 1-2 games behind you? Team A (Oakland) #4 in PAs .680 OPS (Profar at 2B) #5 in PAs .696 OPS (Piscotty in RF and now on IL) #6 in PAs .718 OPS (K Davis at DH) #7 in PAs .752 (Grossman in LF) Closer: 4.54 ERA/1.563 WHIP (worse than our closers) 3 key set-up men (all with over 42 IP): Soria (4.67), Trivino (4.29) and Brooks (5.01)Others with 22+ IP: Wendelkin 4.56, Estrada 6.85 & Anderson 6.04. Their rotation is doing very well, but can you honestly say you think these starters are better than ours? Mike Fiers, Brett Anderson, Frankie Montas, Chris Bassit & Daniel Mengden Team B (CLE) Last year's MVP candidate, Jose Ramirez, is second in PAs on the team and has a .684 OPS. #4 in PAs .707 J Bauers #5 in PAs .666 J Kipnis #5 in PAs .619 L Martin Kluber, Carrasco and JRodrigues are on the IL. Yes, Bauer, Bieber and Clevinger are doing very well, but I still like our top 3 in the playoffs over theirs. Other SP'ers: Plesac 3.56 & Plutko 5.40 Their pen was not supposed to be all that good, but they have over-performed,to date. Brad Hand 25 svs (2.29) and the rest are almost all under 4.00. I can imagine this board would be crying about us having no chance of winning with 2 black holes in the line-up. These teams have 3-4 black holes. What sucks about our team, on paper, is our budget, our budget future and our empty farm. This is that same team that won 118 games minus a Joe Kelly most felt should not have even been on the playoff rosters and the ticking time bomb Kimbrel. On paper, this team was better than those ahead of us now, when the year started. I still think we are better, as lomng as a few players start playing to their skill level, and SOON!

You were definitely the leader in this position from day one, and it is certainly true that our pen was and still is weak. Word was out that we were shopping for Robertson. Signing him would have led to the same fate as now. Cody Allen was mentioned by several posters, including myself, as a cheaper option. That would have been a huge mistake. Some of us felt that Ottavino was the best choice of the higher bracket FA signings, and having him now would certainly be a big plus over Eovaldi, but look at how crappy our rotation has been. Clearly our rotation would have been a big area of need right now had we signed Ottavino instead of Eovaldi. Had we signed Ottavino & Morton, we'd be over the max line. Had we done that and Chavis flopped, we'd have Holt at 1B everyday and Nunez at 2B everyday. In hindsight we should have signed one of Morton or Ottavino, but we might not have really been that much better off had a couple other factors not worked. I'm not defending DD. He got us to where we are today, but he also got us to where we were last year, and that was the plan all along. Go for broke and deal with the fall-out later.

I thought the Sale contract was a great deal for the Sox, despite signs of decline. Most of the great pitchers have a little meltdown between 29-31 and then have some very good years for 2-4 years afterwards. I still expect Sale will earn his keep. I could be wrong: he could become the next King Felix, but I doubt it. I know many said it was a mistake before this year started, and right now, you look right, but his contract has just begun. Almost everyone, but me, loved the Moreland signing and re-signing. His fragility led to the trade and re-signing or Pearce. That was a mistake that led to the second mistake (needing to sign Pearce as insurance). The Nunez re-signing was a mistake. He was clearly physically breaking down. His injuries and decline led us to trade Buttrey for Kinsler. Eovaldi's playoff heroics were a big part of his re-signing, but those moments rallied the team, and losing his clubhouse presence would have been the first excuse used had we sucked this year with some other starter signed instead of him. It was an overpay, but we did need a solid SP'er, and we were not the only ones trying to sign him. The astute talent seeker, Astros, wanted him badly. Yes, it was a mistake (at least for 2019). As we all know, free agent signings are more busts or negative than gains. Expecting DD to ace every signing is expecting too much. We do NOT have an unlimited budget, despite what many people seem to think. DD spent to the limit to get us the ring in 2018. To "continue improving every year" without a farm left us to the point where we had about 5-6 holes and precious few dollars to fill them all. Had we known Chavis would do what he's done, maybe we wouldn't have signed Pearce, but then again, maybe we'd have spent that money on Cody Allen or David Robertson or one of several other RP'er FA flops. In hindsight, maybe we sign Ottavino or Morton and we'd be better off, now, but it is the previous high spending and emptying the farm that got us to last winter's pickle, and DD had to be perfect with his signings to keep us as a top contender.

Pearce had some very good regular season numbers over the prior 2-3 regular seasons. I don't think the post season numbers were the only reason DD decided to sign him.

Look what happened to Tommy Harper and the Sox as late as the 70's. It was a sad stain on our team's history.

RIP Pumpsie Green.

3 games before he goes on the IL again.

Cots has us at spending $236M this season, and here we are. Yes, Eovaldi, Moreland and other have been hurt, but look at the other teams: NYY have had tons of injuries and are spending more than $30M less than us. TBR has a budget almost 1/4th ours. CLE has a budget just over half of ours, lost Brantley and others to free agency and Kluber & Carrasco to injuries. Oak has a budget of about 40% of ours. No excuses. I still think we have a better team, on paper, than most of these teams, but we are where we are. We have 2 weeks to turn things around, of I'll be leading the big sell parade bandwagon.

Nice. The Sox have always been way ahead of my other sport teams' following. I used to score the games by radio or try to watch them on my TV set on UHF Channel 38 all the way from Portland, Me. I was a kid in Milwaukee during the Packer and Bucks championships, and they still have a place in my heart but no where near the Sox. I played fantasy football for 3 years and won twice. They booted me out of the league by changing it to postal workers only. I think I lost my extreme love of the Packers while rooting for Emmit Smith and Gud Frerotte to score, score, score... The Pack and Bucks sucked for many years, but they've had their moments in the sun or partial shade. I admit I've channeled much of my OCD tendencies to one thing: The Boston Redsox!

Well said, and what GM, in their right mind, would not try to win again in 2019 without going even more nutty with the spending?

Yes, he overpaid for Moreland and Pearce. I doubt anyone would have paid Eovaldi that much for 4 years. I do not think he overpaid for Price. He was the best, and the best cost mega bucks. I loved the Sale signing, and we'll see if it becomes our next albatross or not. JD was not overpaid. Bogey was not overpaid. Overall, DD seems to have come out about even on the overpay/underpay scale,to me.

I agree. We should have spent on the pen, instead of Pearce, but Moreland did get hurt and nobody expected Chavis to be better than both. Yes, DD made mistakes. I'm not saying he didn't. It was part of my point. The budget was limited, and we had had many needs: 4th starter, 5th starter, Closer, Set-up man, 1B, 2B and some felt catcher and another RP'er. I have no issue with anyone saying Eovaldi & Pearce were mistakes, and many said so at the time, but it's not like DD did not try to fill the holes he felt were needed most. I'm not giving DD a pass- far from it. He gets credit for getting us the 4th ring, but he also gets the blame for forcing us to max out the budget while emptying the farm to do so. I was okay with the plan. I had hoped we kept more of the farm, but his plan worked. Now the second part of the plan is fast arriving, and it's time to face the consequences. DD gets credit for the win and the blame for where we are now.

We had very limited funds this past winter and very little hope from our farm. This was a direct result of always trying to get better every year. In theory, the philosophy sounds great, but we sold our future for today, and the future is now here. Yes, signing Pearce instead of a pen arm was a mistake, but we thought we needed help for the fragile Moreland. Was DD wrong about that? Yes, Eovaldi got hurt. That sucked. Yes, DD made spending mistakes, but to expect no mistakes in FA signings is unrealistic.

It must have been easy not following the sucky Broncos after their 2 wins. I'm not sure I agree with your generalizations, since there are many cerebral Sox fans, many of whom have gone on to "heady" jobs in baseball.

I totally agree, and we all knew we were going for broke and giving up a bit of the future to do it. Yes, any team that outspends everyone else (some competitors by 3 X) should be more competitive than this, but we emptied the farm for the ring #4, and it may be time to pay for it with a down year or 2 (hopefully not more). Being a Sox fan from the early 70's to 2004 has made me more accepting of 1-3 year lulls, despite mega spending.

I wonder what the demos were 20, 30 and 40 years ago.

This is "the cliff" many of us spoke of. 9 Keepers 6-8 prospetcs called up 8-10 low cost free agents signed this winter, just to field a team and stay under the tax line. This might be the opening day roster (with more than 7-9 keepers) with NO free agents signed: SP: Price, Sale, ERod, Eovaldi, Johnson/Velazquez RP: Workman (last arb year), Barnes, Hembree, Taylor, DHern, Brasier, Brewer/Walden/Lakins/Shawaryn Poyner/ Reyes/ Weber/ Kelley C: Vaz & Leon (at min salary) or Centeno 1B: Dalbec/Travis/Ockimey/Curletta (Chavis from 2B) 2B: Chavis & Marco (Maybe re-sign Holt) 3B: Devers SS: Bogey & Lin/Chatham LF: Beni CF: Castillo/GHernandez/Duran RF: Betts (if not traded) DH: Pedey/Dalbec/Ockimey No: JD Porcello JBJ Moreland Pearce Nunez Wright I think that's enough to get under the luxury tax line. (I'll do the math later.) Maybe Betts or Beni will be gone and replaced by 1-2 cheap free agents on 1 year deals.

Well said. It's hard to stay highly competitive every year, even when outspending everyone.

The offense is the least to blame, for sure.

Agreed, but the offense has struggled when needed

Yes, especially when you never reach the ultimate goal between rebuilds

Cleveland or Oakland might be more likely.

The farm was much worse by the time Theo left. Ben left DD with a great farm.

I've not given up. In fact, I think we should make 1-2 trades right now to get better (2 solid RP'ers). However, we can't just decide on July 30th to sell. We need to put out feelers now, just in case. Plan to win this year, but also plan to sell off, if we look hapless over the next 2 weeks.