moonslav59

I agree, but some here thought he should have been our new closer before gametime.

I usually charge for lessons.

From 2017-2019, he's a role to solid player model on your fangraph chart, but all but 15 pitchers a year (48 in the last 3 years) had an fWAR of over 1.75. I am not denying what that chart says. Only 38 RP'ers a year are called "solid" or better by the chart out of over 200 with 30+ IP. "Solid is the middle designation of their 7 categories, so only15 are above average, only 23 are average and a whopping 200 plus are below average, if we go by your reasoning. My point is you are trying to say the chart says he is an average or below average RP'er. The chart does not show that or even imply that. If you issue is the English language and not understanding what the context surrounding the word average means, then I see how you got from point A to point B. In English, when you say someone one is average, it means when compared to others in the group you named. Had you named the group "all players," then a strong argument could be made that Barnes is below average in value. You named the group RP'ers, which means you were comparing Barnes to other RP'ers ONLY. So an average RP'er would not be the same as an average player in value. Here's how you chart breaks down by actual number of RP'ers in each group from 2017-2019 (divided each by 3 to get the average number of pitchers that fall into each category, each year): (2) 3.5 or higher WAR MVP (3) 3.5 to 3.3 WAR Super Stars (10) 3.3 to 2.3 WAR All Star (34) 2.3 to 1.75 WAR Good Player (70) 1.75 to 1.1 WAR Solid Player (180) 1.1 to 0.5 WAR Role Player (200+) 0.1 to 0.5 WAR Scrub (200)+ at 0 or below (30 IP+) Getting the average for each season from 2017-2019: 1 super star 3 all star (we know more than 4 RP'er made the all star games) 11 good 23 solid 60 role 70 scrub 70+ worse than scrub Barnes placed 21st in total fWAR in that time frame with a 3.5 fWAR. That comes to 1.17 per year or about a 1.2, but go ahead an take his career numbers up to 2021 but not including it, and call him a 3.6 over the 5 years for a 0.7 average year fWAR) making him a "role player" not a "solid player" had we used the 1.17 score. As a role RP'er he would have over 140 RP'ers worse than him and 38 better and about 59 the same. No way is that "average." As a solid RP'er, he'd have 15 better, 200+ worse and about 22 the same- way, way, way better than average. He's not an average RP'er. He's far from "below average" as you wanted to call him. You keep saying my method is flawed, but we are talking about AVERAGE RELIF PITCHERS, so we compare him to only RP'ers. That's how it works. I'm not cherry-picking stats. I'm using the data that compares RP'ers to each others using your preferred stat, fWAR (not mine).

He'll kick the Yanks again, after we beat their asses in the WC game. He'll call for Boone and Cashman's heads, again.

I'm not making excuses. I'm just saying baseball is not easy. It's not easy to hit a deep enough fly ball off any MLB pitcher at any given moment. He failed in his attempt. It doesn't necessarily mean he took the wrong attitude or approach. It could just mean, no matter how hard he tried to do what he needed to do, he just plain failed. Yes, the great hitters do a better job under that circumstance. Verdugo is not a great hitter, and he failed, last night.

The chart was not designed to show what RP'ers are average, above or below. You decided to try and do that- not them. The chart they created is labelling all players, and fangraphs takes a position that most RP'ers have a value of between a scrub and role player. Not just most, but practically all but about a dozen or two, each year. They would never call Barnes an average RP'er or below average RP'er as you said he was or tried to claim they were saying he was. You still don't get it. You say you know what "average" means, but you do not show you know it. If you want to say he's a below average player, that is a totally different thing, and that is what the fangraphs chart is showing. I have a 100 students. Most get between an 80 and a 90. They are average. If I compared them to college students, they'd be below average. Just use the term correctly, or admit you used it incorrectly. You can't and won't. You cling to the idea that Barnes was an average or below average RP'er, even though there are 2 worse for every 1 better. You want us to believe a RP'er in the top 33% or 50% is below average, because fangraphs calls him a scrub or role player. You are mixing up two clearly different forms of evaluation.

To his credit, he was really good at kicking his own team, when they were down, too.

LOL Schwarber lifted our morale, last night. It worked out very well.

I'm thinking, most of the times, the players turn themselves into that. The team is not encouraging them. Maybe their agent is.

Seems like we needed Scherzer, Rizzo, Schwarber and 3 RP'ers. Damn Bloom dropped the ball.

Verdugo needed a fly ball- not a weak pop-up. I don't have an issue with him swinging hard. It's not as easy as it might seem to just hit a deep fly ball.

Learn what the word average means. Why you keep sticking to that point is beyond me. No way has fangraphs ever said a 0.5 to 1.0 fWAR for a RP'er is below average, let alone 1.0+ like Barnes has been since 2017. Yes, I do have an issue with the terminology they choose to label RP'ers, but I am 100% certain they would never call Barnes average, let alone below average as you have tried to say they do by superimposing your term average over their charts that label players based on comps to everyday players and starters who play much more than RP'er. When you say average RP'er, you are comparing RP'ers to Rp'ers. How hard is it to just admit you used the wrong term? Barnes could certainly be called a below average players when compared to the other 26 players on a roster, but he is and has been way above the average RP'er in MLB, especially since 2017, which is the only Barnes I have been talking about.

That was an extra tough loss, last night. It's got my hopes wavering. It's never about one game, to me, but after this long stretch of coming up short and finding ways to lose, the game last night was a knife-twisting defeat. We've gone 20-25 in our last 45, and while that sample size is much smaller than the previous 83 game sample size, it's becoming harder and harder to think we can return to that early season form. You'd think adding Sale & Schwarber and more innings from Houck, the hopes for improvement would be getting stronger, but sadly, it has not, so far. I'm not giving up, by any means. We are still on the inside track of making the playoffs, while other teams are peaking in August. Much can change in 6 weeks and 34 games. We have to do much better vs weaker teams than we've shown, recently, as well as pull off some series wins vs the teams ahead of us to have any hope of passing someone. That hope may be fading fast, but making the playoffs would still be a a major accomplishment for this team after the expectations ost had, last spring, and especially after being swept by the O's in that opening series.

Nobody is disputing this point. You added that no team can comeback from that, and I gave 2 examples right off the top of my head.

No, they were talking about different higher level tax lines, which makes me think the top end might be similar to the way it is now, but with a lower first level line. As a player, the $100M line would be an enormous get. It would immediately mean massive pay raises for the lower and middle tier players, which happens to be the vast majority of players. For a big market, big spending team fan perspective, I can see your point, but you are talking union wants and needs. Now, if they up the penalties on going over the tax line, especially the first one, then some major push back will occur, but a $100M floor is huge!

I never said anything close to what you are saying I said. I said the fangraphs charts are not designed to identify average. You tried to superimpose the term onto their chart. An average player by definition means in the middle. Of course RPers aren’t average when compared to starters and everyday players. That’s why these charts call an average RPer just a role player or scrub. Their value is inherently less than any other position. When you use the word average and RPer together, it means comparing RPers to other RPers. The fact that you can’t understand simple logic like this is beyond any hope of further discussion. Saying someone is an average RPer is way way way different than saying they are an average player, which you are now saying. Barnes is far from and average relief pitcher and that’s what you called him..

Why do I keep making myself watch every pitch of every game?

Look at the pitch plot charts for many of Vaz’s PAs and you’ll see he could have walked in many of them, if could just not swing at obvious balls.

Taylor by the process of elimination not as any kind of reward.

That’s just plain unacceptable.

Why are you so hung up on some chart that is not trying to quantify average? Unlike you, though, I’ll actually answer your question. Average on their chart would be the scrubs and role players. It’s not surprising. Fangraphs has never valued a RPers highly. What you are missing is that they think most or average RPersare scrubs in the whole scheme of player evaluations.

I take this back. Being 2 down, now, means the middle of the order will be needed in the bottom of the 1oth to pull this out. Oh well.

The last Brasier I’ve seen is the Brasier burger at DQ.

We had plenty of chances in the 9th. Missed opportunities has been our biggest struggle the last few weeks. I know, stating the obvious about every losing team.

That’s why Robles is not a closer.