moonslav59

And you’re moving the goal posts. You’re original notion was Bloom needs to spend money on starters. That he has never spent $10mill on a starter. Wrong. I said I'd rather spend more than $10M on a starter than get 3 for $20M. I also said I did not think any starters this year, were worth the big plunge, and trading for one made more sense. I have also showed how trading for starters has worked way better for us than FA signings. The rest of your post was based on a faulty idea of what my position is.

IMO, we were a top 2 contender at the start of 2018, and one reason was we had Sale AND Price, plus some other starters who looked pretty good. (We also had a closer, who underperformed from ST'ing expectations, but the rotation carried us. (Other pen pieces stepped up, when needed, too.) Nate and Pearce put us over the top, or one might say, were "icing on the cake."

Okay. Look, I'd prefer better starters than better pens, but we need a legit closer, too.

Where did I ever come close to saying or implying that? If you think planning should involve or plan on good luck, don't count me in on that idea.

No, I don't think we were a top 4 team, last year, at any point, even the end. For one thing, the Dodgers played the Giants, the two best teams, before the NLCS. Adding Schwarber and the fine play by additions like Iggy, Shaw and, at times, the pen additions helped get us closer, but I still think TBR, TOR, NYY, CWS and HOU were better than us, last year- just in the AL. Although I do not think the playoffs are a total crapshoot, like many fans do, there is some luck involved on who advances. Having a better team increases your odds of winning, and do not have some unique point of view or philosophy, as Bellhorn thinks I have, to think having a strong rotation greatly improves your odds. The whole "on paper" thing is not something I quite understand. Framber Valdez was not a recognized ace, last year, but he looked like one to us. I fully understand, we could have a solid rotation, by the end of the year without making any flashy, glitzy or under the radar rotation additions, but I'd feel a lot more confident, if we had some more known solid starters, so if that means "on paper," I'm not sure that makes me all that "different" from the way many fans feel about their team's chances. It's not like history is working against my idea. We had Pedro and added Schiiling> ring We had Schilling and added Beckett> ring We had Lester and added Lackey> ring We had Price and added Sale> ring. These are not coincidences. Does this "ring" the bell? We had Eovaldi and added Pivetta. Or, we had Sale and added Eovaldi. Maybe, it does, but I think we need to do better to have a strong chance at winning, this year. Can Houck and or Whitlock fill that role? Possibly. I'm not writing off this year. Plus, maybe Sale does fill that role. Hell, maybe Paxton does. It's not like our rotation is hopeless. I just wish it was better.

2013 and 2021 proved that is not true, but I do think you have a much better chance of being a top 3-4 contender, if you have a stronger rotation. Also, you can add pieces during the season- like Eovaldi and Pearce in 2018, to put you over the top, so no, you don't have to be one of the best to start the season.

If you say so.

Getting a win after being no hit through nine is not very common. It would have been great to pull this one out.

If the bus runs me over, how can I start a game thread?

Maybe not playing 2B all that much is part of it, but this loss really sucks.

You promise to now not bitch about the pen? (BTW, I wanted Whitlock starting and Houck closing, but once Sale went down, again, the writing was on the wall.)

Well, now!

He did very well in a very short time with us, last year. Maybe, they are hoping he will continue like last year. He hasn't played mush, this year, and the frustration over Dalbec's slow start should not factor into the Shaw evaluation. I'm not saying I'm okay with the production we've seen from 1B, and other positions, for that matter, but I'm not sure we expected to see Shaw playing this much.

Pedro: trade & ring Schilling: trade & ring Beckett: trade & ring ERod: trade & ring Porcello: trade & ring Sale: trade & ring Eovaldi: trade & ring I see a pattern.

I get that. I really do, but I just can't see us ever getting to be a top 3-4 contender without adding quality pitching. Maybe, at some point, one of these bargain guys will far exceed expectations and give us what we'd expect from a $17-27M FA starter. Maybe, a prospect will become an ace, or Houck and or Whitlock will. I'm not saying it's impossible to create an excellent rotation without signing or trading for an ace, but that's a lot of hopes and prayers having to come through and soon.

Bloom hasn't spent over $10M. There's a big gap between $10M and what Price and Sale got. Eovaldi and Price's $16M come off the books, this winter. How will Bloom spend on starters, then? Bigger money for free agents or trading prospects for a good one? Or, does he hope some of our prospects fill the open slots?

You can, but it will always be more subjective than valuing HRs, BBs and hits.

What? No tater for Bello?

I'm okay with signing low budget starters as depth, but at some point we need to look at quality over quantity, and that will cost more than $10M/1. I'm thinking we'll eventually have to part with a prized prospect or two to trade for one, but I'm not sure Bloom thinks that way.

Yes, a bit premature on this year's signings, but I'm talking more about the strategy of not even going over $10M, let alone $15 or $20M.

I'd rank him behind Perez.

That's what "the jury is still out" on them means.

I can see the reasoning clear as day, but how long can you sustain a winning team when you go 1 for 5 on scrap heap starter signings? Richards Perez Paxton Wacha Hill Now, the jury is still out on Paxton and Hill, but he has to find more gems in the rough than 1 out of 5, especially when you are spending over $38M on these 5. I'm not saying it's easier finding 1 in 3 good starters for $38M, but the odds favor it, IMO. He's spreading the risk. I get it, but you often get what you pay for, and we've gotten mostly crap. Bloom has done better in trades and Rule 5 than free agency.

Because a compensation package built around WAR would lock in the formula at whatever point they agreed to lock it in at. It would be a transparent formula and likely not fWAR or bWAR but a league designed formula similar to either or both.

No doubt, many of us had wished we did better on acquiring pitchers with better expectations than Paxton, Wacha, Hill, Diekman and Strahm. Same with last year's Richards, Perez, Sawamura and others. I kept expecting a trade to be made, as so many decent pitchers changed teams over the winter- some at seemingly bargain basement returns. Somehow, Cora seems to cobble together a well-functioning pen out of scraps and reclamation projects, but the rotation vaccine avoidance has now forced Houck and Whitlock to the rotation. I'm giving Bloom a pass on 2020, although pretty close to zero of his starter winter acquisitions showed any smidgeon of success, that season. (Pivetta was a summer addition.) But, it's extreme wishful thinking to expect big contributions from guys like Richards, Paxton, Wacha, Perez and Hill. Somehow, we have to start going aiming a little higher.