moonslav59

How can they say their "final and best offer" is almost identical to the one they started with? If they really mean this, then MLB might be over, as we know it. I hope the players start their own league (not likely), even if it means there is no longer a team called the Boston Red Sox.

I've never called the players "poor," and you know that. "Pitiful" is not a word I'd use either. It's about what's fair. It's hard to think a group of people making an average of $4M deserve or should get a raise, but within the context of all the money baseball generates, they deserve way more than the owners "final and best offer." I've agreed to disagree, but please don't put words in my mouth. The players earn what they make and the owners make much much more without really "earning it." They make money because they have money. There certainly is no pity feelings towards them. Of course, this is not their last offer, but they worded it that way and at the same time called the players out for taking an aggressive stance. They have been playing the media all along. They knew this was where it would end up, and their unbridled greed is by far the major reason there will be baseball games cut from the season, or if there is a season, at all. They did not even give a slight impression they were willing to give anything. Their offer was a huge slap in the face, and IMO, the public should see it for what it is and call them out. I'd rather not see any baseball, this year, than to see the players accept anything close their "final and best offer." I really mean that. This filthy greed need to be checked.

You think they'll try scab-ball, again? That would be funny.

Maybe the farm will be the only baseball we see, this summer. #40 Eduardo Lopez: https://soxprospects.com/players/lopez-eduardo.htm Potential organizational outfielder. Low floor; has a chance to develop into at least an MLB reserve. Needs to stay healthy to make up for lost time in 2020 and 2021, which has created a wide variance in his future outcomes. Has a good feel for the game for his age [19], solid overall instincts, and a high baseball IQ.

Rays then O's were our first 2. (The Yanks, then Tigers and Twins, next.) Does anyone have 2 or 4 game series in their first two series? If yes, are we looking at unbalanced scheduled games again?

Well said.

Fair points, but once the rules are agreed upon and established, and you kind of have a feel for what your team's budget is, it's all part of the speculation games some of us fans take part in.

Yup. There is absolutely no way the owners make significant concessions, like the players already have, in the next few hours or days. It's going to be at least 2 series lost- maybe 2 months or more. Sad, but I hope the players stand strong.

The union’s player leaders voted unanimously to decline the league’s offer, reports Jeff Passan of ESPN (Twitter link). A person associated with the MLBPA told Evan Petzold of the Detroit Free Press, “We are done. This was always (the league’s) plan.” That’s in line with other allegations by those on the players’ side who believe the league exaggerated the extent of the progress made last night in order to frame today’s lack of agreement as the fault of the union. -MLBTR

The players would jump at making 45%. 50% would be heaven. The problem is the hidden nature of baseball profits.

Need/Deserve... six of one-half dozen... If you look at the entertainment industry, and this is what baseball is, people pay big money to watch top talent. The middle men have always tried to gouge out as big of a chunk as possible, and many an entertainer has been left broke by cheating agents and "handlers." Many have gone broke by their own undoings- drugs, women, cars, rampant unchecked spending, and many managers, venue owners and business owners have made big money off the best talent around. Baseball should not be viewed in much of a different view, even though it is different in many ways. I get the "risk" owners take, but when's the last time even a half-witted owner lost money in baseball? It's hard to track all the money they make, because much is secret, but we do see what the pay for the team and what they get when they sell it, and nobody can convince me these guys aren't making way more than the players are making, and people come to see the players not the owners. I pay to see the Rolling Stones in concert. I know the middle men gobble up much of the ticket costs. Hell, the damn "service fees," alone are a joke, but the Stones make a ton of money, and they DESERVE it! So do MLB baseball players. Nobody will pay big money and cable bills to watch Paw Sox level talent... at least not at the level we see in the bigs.

The players made some pretty high demands, no doubt, but they've seen their pay go down for years- not even counting inflation adjustments. They've backed off many of their demands by quite a bit. The owners' idea of making a counter offer is to raise the lux tax by $1M for one year. They have tried to say the players have been antagonistic and are the reason for this standoff. It's typical management negotiation ploys, but it seems like the propaganda is working on some fans.

So? Even the poorest owners are filthy rich. That, also, means nothing.

I understand your opinion, but disagree. Players should not make less and less money as owners make more and more. The owners called their offer their "best." That is basically calling an end to negotiations, unless the players agree in full. Not even a token raise of $1M to the luxury tax limt. A token raise to their last min salary offer and peanuts in other areas. It's your right to blame whomever you want, but to me, this is 100% on the owners. The locked the doors and took over 40 days to give their first offer. They've moved very little from a position where they had screwed the players over on the last deal, and I'm not even talking about player service time manipulations. We'll just have to agree to disagree... again, but in all honesty, do you think the players should except this final and "best offer?".

I do blame the owners 100% and am not surprised everyone doesn't. The players will not even keep up with inflation under this "best offer" put forward by the owners.

Money fazes even multi-billionaires. Yes, the players may "need it more," but they will stick together and have been planning for this for years.

Yup, but let's not let them off the hook by siding with them.

I hope the players dig in. I'd hate to miss watching the game I love, but these owners irk the crap out of me!

Even an agreement to split the differences in half would be a bad deal for the players. The owners are forcing missed games. It's 100% on them.

MLBTR reports: MLB’s offer to the union, per Chelsea Janes of the Washington Post (Twitter link), includes a $30MM pre-arbitration bonus pool with no yearly increases, a $700K minimum salary with $10K annual increases, and no changes to prior luxury-tax thresholds ($220MM from 2022-24, $224MM in 2025, $230MM in 2026). That leaves a $55MM gap between the league’s proposed bonus pool (which also includes yearly $5MM increases) and a $25K gap in minimum salary. As for the luxury-tax thresholds, the two sides still face an $18MM gap in 2022 proposals, which grows to a $33MM gap by their proposed 2026 terms.

Anybody that thinks MLB survives without the top 200-400 players playing is kidding themselves.

Context. I’m talking about min salary and arb guys, mostly. Plus the average salary has declined.

I didn’t say he didn’t have a reason to quit, but he quit. He was not let go.

The owners are barely allowing the players to keep up with inflation. They make way more money than they pretend to make, and then when they sell the team, they reap huge rewards. I'm fine with figuring out a way to keep a few teams from spending way more than others, or a few players to make a large percent of all the player salary, but the lower paid players deserve better- MUCH better!

Hogwash. Jeter quit.