moonslav59

I said I think Bloom may choose adding a Hill-type, not that it is what I want to happen. (If Henry opens the wallet, I'm fine with adding veteran SP depth, too.) I'd like to pool all our resources into a few really good players, this winter, rather than spreading the wealth around. I'd like to see the kids fill in the depth roles and 5th starter type slots. No, I'm not counting on for 31 starts. He hasn't had over 25 starts since 2018 and that was 27 starts not 31. I certainly am not counting on Paxton for even 21. I think it is entirely reasonable to count on maybe 33 starts combined. If we get more, great, but planning on 50+ starts from those two is planning on failure, IMO. I want us to sign one solid starter to fill the shoes of Nate, Wacha and Hill. Many would think that is not enough. I think that is giving plenty of room for the kids to fill in the rest of the rotation, and whoever doesn't make it into the starting 5, we know we have plenty of key pen slots open for 2023.

If Sale and Paxton could time their IL stints apart from each other, it would be very helpful. (LOL) We have a lot of young arms to pool together and come up with 2 starting slots and maybe 3-4 pen slots, but it might take a few trial and error attempts to find the right ones for the right slots, and too many losses could occur during their "trials." The early results on Wink and Crawford have been very encouraging, but it was Bello and Mata that appeared to have the best stuff to win a starting role. That could be a good thing having 4+ guys to choose from over 2, but it could also be a bad thing, if we have to cycle through some failures to end up at a success story. While mayb e none of these guys jump out as a near cinch to make it big, I do think many or all show enough promise to think 3-5 might make a significant contribution in 2023: Bello Mata Wink Crawford Seabold Ward (not sure we Rule 5 protect him) Murphy (Rule 5) Pen? Walter (Rule 5) Pen? German (Rule 5) Pen That's 9 arms to fill maybe 4-5 slots.

I think the direction and plan is clear to management: build up the farm and strive for consistent- competitiveness. This season was a cluster you-know-what, but I doubt it has changed the masterplan much. The trades made at the deadline helped 2023 and beyond much more than 2022, even if just speculatively. They had to balance fan outrage vs looking more to the future than the here and now. I guess they felt the fans could stomach trading Vaz over Nate & JD. They added Hosmer (free 1Bman/DH for the next 2+ years), Pham (a RH'd OF'er), McGuire (a defensive plus catcher to possibly start or replace Plawecki in 2023) and a number of promising prospects for beyond 2023. Some may not like the "direction," but to me it has been pretty clear. I don't think management thought or planned to have highly competitive teams in 2021 or 2022, but 2021's success made following their complete rebuild plan harder to disguise. I think they hoped we'd be competitive enough to keep fans engaged and interested, and it worked in 2021. It failed miserably in 2022 for various reasons. It's easy to use injuries as an excuse, but this team had very little chance of winning it all, even with normal or expected amounts of injuries and "down seasons" expected every year. There were just too many failures to sustain a competitive team in 2022. We had a brief period where everything seemed to be falling into place, but that was derailed in July. The hope that Dalbec/Shaw and Casas could make 1B a break even or plus position turned into a nightmare. Cordero only made it worse. Story's slow start and injury was barely offset by his stellar D and high RBI rate. Bogey and JD's lack of run production was a bit unexpected and hurt like hell. The OF's lack of production was expected, but the extreme to which it failed was probably worse than even the most pessimistic fan envisioned. The Sale/Paxton injury status was to be expected, although the finger injury to Sale was unfortunate. What we got from Wacha and Hill was probably better than expected, but simultaneous injuries to them, Sale and Nate put the kibosh on any hopes for 2022. The pen was hurt badly by having to use Houck and Whitlock as starters, and the failed comeback by Barnes, which could have been expected. The magic Cora seemed to have with past pens did not occur in 2022. Diekman, Robbles and others turned into pumpkins, Strahm and Schreiber were breaths of fresh air, but neither was around for the whole season (Schreiber by choice.) Cora's choices always seemed to be wrong, although many of his choices seemed, to me, to be seeking the lesser of multiple evils. Bloom did okay with Wacha, Hill, Strahm, Refsnyder and Schreiber additions but failed with Diekman, Shaw and to a large extent, Story. Add these all together, and it spells failure. To me, it does not spell failure for 2023, though. We have an opportunity to greatly improve upon 2022 and even 2021's team. Bringing everyone back (Bogey, Nate, JD, Vaz & Kike) would not make us better, and might even make us worse. This team was headed for an overhaul, like it or not. I'm hopeful Bloom will choose wisely, this winter, but certainly I am skeptical and apprehensive. The farm appears to be stronger and deeper from the rookie leagues to AAA than it was 3-6 years ago. They may all peeter out, but all we can do is try to improve it, and Bloom seemed like the right guy to do that. Watching some of DD's prospects rise higher than most of us expected has been a big boost to the farm, as well. Kudos to DD for that. I hope we extend Devers, and then our framework for the future looks pretty good to me.

Maybe they are counting Schwarber and Iggys as part of the deconstruction, and maybe Bloom should be blamed for guessing Perez's best season wrongly. Maybe he should have brought Richards, Marwin and Andriese back, instead of Wacha, Hill, Strahm and Robles.

I agree that Bogey will not return. I seriously doubt JD and Nate will, either. I still think trading one of Dugo or Duran makes too much sense. I think we view Hosmer as our 1Bman for the next 2 years and use Casas as part of a package to get a SP, Catcher, OF'er or 2B/SS. I think Bloom/Cora make Whitlock an opening season SP'er and move Wink and/or Crawford to the pen. I think we sign one large & long FA (Judge, TTurner, Correa, Verlander or Nimmo) I think we sign 2 second tier FAs like Haniger/Kike, Swanson/Anderson, Narvaez, Bassitt/Morton/Kershaw, Mancini/Abreu/Muncy I admit, I might be pie-eyed, here.

Out of 971 IP by Sox pitchers, this year, these are the innings from pitchers who see their team control end after 2022: 94 Eovaldi (4.23 ERA) 74 R Hill (4.52) 70 Wacha (2.69 done with rehab?) 38 Diekman (4.23 already gone) 28 Strahm (3.58) 25 Robles (5.84 gone) 16 Valdez (4.41 gone) Total: 345 That's 36% of all IP. One might want to replace these IP, too: 43 Sawamura (3.32) 40 Brasier (5.36) 31 Danish (4.02) 18 Barnes (7.50) 12 Ort (9.49) 11 Seabold (11.91) 6 DHern (14.29) 3 Feliz (2.70) Total: 164 IP That's another 17% making the combined total near or over 50%. I can't see Sox management deciding to give all thos elost or potentially lost IP to: Wink Crawford Bello Mata Seabold German Murphy and add more workload to Houck, Whitlock & Schreiber

I seriously doubt they view this as the full rotation. Maybe they slide Whitlock into one slot or wait for Sale or Paxton to go down to move him there (keeping his innings below 170.) Then, they just add depth like Hill, again. I hope not. I'll be seriously bummed and mildly surprised, if they do.

I'm not so sure we go "Wacha/Hill" types, again, and here's why: In the past, Bloom has needed 2-4 rotation slots filled, every winter, and even if you count needing to replace Nate, Wacha and Hill (+Sale/Paxton), this coming winter as 3-4, I think the idea is to fill a few with the kids- good or bad. Maybe I'm just hoping, here, but I think we go with one much better starter, instead of the pairs like Richards/Perez and Wacha/Hill. I'd love to see an ace type or a solid #2, but a few them were already traded at the deadline (Castillo, Montas...) I'm not sure Kershaw, Bassitt or Morton reach that level. I see them more as solid #3's going into 2023. Maybe we splurge on Verlander on a short deal. Anyway, this would look fine, to me: Verlander Sale/Paxton (count on just one) Pivetta Winckowski/Bello Crawford/Mata (I'd avoid starting Whitlock, but that may not happen, and who fills his pen role?)

1. I resolved that fact long before most, here. (Not bragging. It sucks that I felt this way, long ago.) 2. It matters how many and how good your prospects are. Every winning Sox team from the past had some awesome homegrown talent, that at some point, many fans did not care about as their beards grew fully. 3. Maybe none or not enough of DD's and Bloom's prospects amount to anything decent or amazing, but we are NOT ever going to win again, unless and until they do. I don't get all the malaise about farm-building. It's the key to success and the cornerstone of continued success. For those of you who like to hear things straight from the moths of players, managers and GMs, find me one GM who states otherwise.

It seems the biggest loss from the 2021 team is Martin Perez. Yes, even bigger than Renfroe. I guess is to blame for that, too.

If the Sox go second tier all the way, next winter, would this be enough to expect a playoff berth and possible advancement to the ALCS or WS? SS Dansbury Swanson RF Mitch Haniger CF Kike Hernandez SP Chris Bassitt C Omar Narvaez 1B/OF/DH Trey Mancini (Great clubhouse guy) How about? SS Tim Anderson CF Brandon Nimmo SP Charlie Morton or Clayton Kershaw RP Edwin Diaz C Mike Zunino or Tucker Barnhart 1B/DH Jose Abreu or Max Muncy (Rizzo?) (Some may be considered first tier.)

Yanks lost. TOR lost TBR lost We missed a good chance to get back in the race, these last 2 days. Returning players are not giving us what we hoped for. Even our rocks, like Whitlock, are showing signs of cracking. (Still pitched very well.) This team seems snakebitten. Nothing seems to go right. There is plenty of blame to go around, if blaming is your thing. Top to bottom: we suck! We should have sold, sold, sold.

Looks like Woo is coming around. Granberg is making a case for Rule 5 protection, but I still think it's a longshot. Seabold went 3.1 allowing 1 ER (4H, 1BB, 5K) and the pen shut down the opps. German 2 IP 1H 0BB 4K. The new guy, Valdez went 0-1 with 2 BB. Almonte went 2-4. Casas had a 2B (1-3 w BB). POR got the win, but Mata was not sharp: 5.2 IP, 4H, 4ER, 5BB, 6K. Rafaela and Binelas each went 2 for 4. Abreu went 1-3 w 2 BB (.893 OPS) SAL also won, despite a poor starting pitcher performance. Paulino 1-4 w 2B and BB. Mayer 1-4. Despite having some very exciting players, GRE can't seem to win much. Yorke went 3-5 w an HR, so hopefully he's coming around. Jimenez 2-4. Kavadas with a 2B and 2 BB, giving him a 1.207 OPS on the season! Weird no promotion. Ub erstine had another nice start: 5 IP, 2H, 1 ER, 2BB, 4K.

Of course not, and the team wins more with him than without. I was making a point about hearing so many poster speak of how certain players are great in the clubhouse or "team leaders" everyone respects. I'm not seeing the results of such great veteran leadership, either. I'm not blaming Vaz or Bogey, but I find it odd those who blame Cora for the lack of focus and direction still praise the team leaders for being great leaders. I also have my own private beef, it appears, about Vaz's CERA.

They also don't go more than 5 years between rings.

That's funny.

It wasn't an honest mistake. You do it all the time. You call out others for making similar comments, but take issue when someone calls you out. It's only trivial when you do it, I guess.

The sad thing is, if we had won the last 2 games, we'd be in this thing.

Snakebite season.

Hard to know, if they are real and mean anything going forward. He has a career .700 OPS vs RHPs and that didn't work out, this season. He's at .853 vs LHPs in 312 PAs. I'm not thinking that sample size is large enough to mean much, but I think it's worth a try going forward. Then again, I thought Dalbec deserved a chance to play FT, this season, and then deserved a longer look than many ehre felt he deserved.

You just did, and of course you won't respond to a point that exposes your condescension. (Nice try on changing the wording from "fail to recognize" to "in case you haven't noticed..." Call it nitpicking, but there is a huge difference in statements.)

We really needed Nate to have any chance, this year. This year has been one major cluster ____ !!!

Updated after latest moves and draftee ranking placements: Beyond drafting, minor league FA additions and IFA signings, Bloom had traded for the following prospects. While the list seems more quantity vs quality orientated, I do feel like we have some promising prospects and some long shots with various degrees of upside potential. New soxprospects ranking 9 Winckowski (w Cordero & others for Beni) 12 Seabold (w Pivetta for Workman & Hembree) 14 E Valdez (Vaz) 17 Wong (w Verdugo & Downs for Betts and Price) 23 Downs (w Verdugo & Wong for Betts and Price) 26 Abreu (Vaz) 28 Binelas (w JBJ for Renfroe) 30 German (w Ottavino as salary dump trade by Yanks) 39 R Hernandez (Mazza & Springs) 40 Koss (Y Aybar) 50 Hamilton (w JBJ & Binelas for Renfroe) 59 Wallace (Moreland) NR Luis de la Rosa (w Wink, Cordero & others for Beni) Freddy Valdez (w Wink, Cordero & others for Beni) Grant Gambrell (w Wink, Cordero & others for Beni) H Potts (w JRosario for Moreland)

I know what the conversation was about. I was wondering why you assume we "fail to recognize" because we happened to not mention it. You did not say "in case you did not notice..." Instead you claimed we "failed to notice." You again fail to respond to points being made. Do try to keep up.

Besides Bleis moving from 8 to 5, we can see... Rafaela 19>8 Wink 12>9 Murphy 15>11 Paulino 23>13 Ward 20>15 Wong 27>17 Lugo 29>21 Hickey 30>22 Perales NR>24 Kavadas- 46>25 German 35>30 Drohan 52>32 Paez 60>37 Uberstine 51>41 Romero (1st rd draft) starting at 10 Anthony (2nd rd) starts at 14 Enmanuel Valdez (Vaz trade) is placed 16th Coffey (2nd rd) starts at 20 Abreu (Vaz trade) is placed 26th Biggest falls: 10>18 Jordan 11>19 Wikelman 13>23 Downs 21>28 Binelas 18>29 Jimenez 17>31 McDonough 28>39 RHern 22>40 Koss 26>50 Hamilton 24>54 Fitzy 36>59 Wallace 38>60 Liu