moonslav59
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Everything posted by moonslav59
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Okay, but the question at hand was what CF'er is available for $10M or less than is a better choice than Kike. I'm okay with bringing up past signings, but not someone who cannot be a FT CF'er. Just my opinion.
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9/20 SOX @ Reds 6:40PM ET
moonslav59 replied to SPLENDIDSPLINTER's topic in Mike Grace Memorial Game Thread Forum
I just don't think he'd be worth $18M in 2024. I will say that if the plan is to reset after 2024, and going over by a lot is okay in 2023, then these type of 1 year deals might be workable. (Yes, not at the expense of adding better pitching.) Piling up comp picks would be nice, too. -
9/20 SOX @ Reds 6:40PM ET
moonslav59 replied to SPLENDIDSPLINTER's topic in Mike Grace Memorial Game Thread Forum
I can't remember specifically if I said he was too much overpaid. I remember having to come up with a very complicated platoon and rotation plan to get everyone the amount of PAs they were expected to get, although Schwarber could have taken all of Dalbec, Cordero's and other players' PAs, in hindsight. (Hell, even JD's post May.) I really liked Scwarber, and was okay with trading JD (plus cash) to make room for him, but I'm not sure the money we'd have to have paid the team taking JD plus the Schwarber contract would have been worth the longer term investment. I seem to recall you being critical of posters wanting him back, but forgive me, if I'm wrong. I'm pretty sure you said something about posters wanting to "sign Schwarber for life." -
I admire the attempt to find a comp, and in many ways, it's a good one, but we need a CF'er and RF'er for 2024. I doubt Bloom would even kick Frazier's tires, unless he thinks he could play 2B and Story SS. BTW, I also think Frasier gets $10M/1 or more and will not be as a CF'er.
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There is nobody else they could sign to take away the pain of letting him go. If Judge went to the Mets, signing Nimmo, deGrom and Bogey would not be enough to quiet the riot.
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I can't help but think Bloom would have been bashed harshly had he traded Bogey and or JD or Nate a year or two ago. Perhaps you would have been among the bashers, but only complaining about the return- not the trades, themselves. Also, we may get some comp picks our of some of the expiring contracts. Whoopdee-freakin-doo! We should have traded at least JD and Nate at the deadline, if not earlier.
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It's one year. Maybe not spending big on a better CF'er will mean we get a better pitcher, RF'er or can afford Bogey.
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And understanding the Sox position on wanting plus D in CF and RF, as evidenced by the JBJ trade, I don't think Frazier is a realistic comp to Kike in CF.
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I sincerely think that had Duran been a capable CF'er on D and hit well enough to be slotted as our 2024 CF, something I never thought would happen, so I'm not sure why it matters, here, we'd still have signed Kike for $10M/1. We still need an OF'er and 2B/SS, and Kike plays all very well on D and is more than okay on O. BTW, I have no problem with anyone not valuing some players as highly as I do, but you seem to go out of your way to show he is worth less than many others feel he is worth. I wonder what the majority of Sox Nations feels about Kike.
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Do you think career WAR and total games means more than a player's previous 2, 3 or 5 season numbers? Do you think this year's WAR is more important than a player's previous 2,3, 4 or 5 season numbers? I'm just curious, because you seem to only post those two WAR numbers, and IMO, a player's career trend matters more to GMs than what you did over a short and recent sample size or what you did early in your career, sometime 6, 7 or 10+ years ago. I'm not bashing you, but genuinely want to know.
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Every starter plays because the team has no one better.
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I mentioned Pham, and I'm not sure anyone would have chosen him over Kike last winter. Hindsight is easy. I'm talking about 2024. Also, I and GMs don't place value on just the previous season value.
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I know your position. If I disagree, then I think there is something wrong with your position. That's just how it works. I'm fine agreeing to disagree. To answer your question, and I wish you'd answer mine, yes, even if Duran hit .850, we'd have re-signed Kike, because we still need an OF'er after this signing.
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It was legit, because it was made. It was low-ball offer, just like Kike's was, IMO. That's why I mentioned it. Why are you moving the goalposts from there being no offer to the quality of the offer(s)?
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One can always find some guy who signed at a low cost and beat expectations, but did anyone clamour for us to sign one? I did here people saying we should have signed Suzuki to way more than Kike signed for. I remember Pham's name being thrown around. he signed for less than $10M and has better 2022 numbers than Kike, so is that who you have in mind? I'm asking in foresight- not hindsight. Give me a name of who you'd want for next year at $10M or less, and lets see how it works out. If there are so many, why not name one? I don't think there are any, because I think Kike is being underpaid, so I don't understand why you want me to name someone I think doesn't exist.
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He could have tried to trade JD or Bogey before they reached this point. That is a fair point, IMO. Maybe he was not aware of what future financial restraints were going to be, and JH told him not to worry about future spending, and then clamped down. It's hard to know. In hindsight, he should have traded JD, but if he did before 2021, maybe we don't get as far as we did. It's not an easy choice. It's even harder to criticize without knowing all the aspects involved.
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Agreed, but at the time of the trade, McGuire was hitting under .600 and had a checkered past. I'm not sure how Dalbec, Pham, Hosmer, Almonte or maybe EValdez would have done at DH. JD has hit .706 since 8/2/22 with 3 HRs and 15 RBIs in 37 games/ 158 PAs. Fans would not have been happy.
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I trashed it, like I just said. I also think the $10M/1 deal to Kike was a lowball offer, but not to the same extend Bogey's was. My point was they offered Bogey an offer first. You asked "How do you know?" Now, you accept they did but are turning the argument into something we both agree on. Bogey was low-balled. I thought Bogey deserved $150M/6, but maybe $144/6 ($24M x 6) would have been a fair offer. Apparently, hey offered him $90M/4 ($22.5M x 4.) I think Kike was worth $25M/3 and they offered $10M/1. What is there an argument, here?
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If there are so many, name one.
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Kike is an outstanding defensive CF and a plus defender at 2B. He's decent at SS, too. His offense has not been very consistent from year-to-year as well as within a season, but he compares pretty well with the average offense of CF'ers and 2Bmen. 2018-2022 (500+ PAs) He ranks 23rd out of 51 in CF OPS at .742. He ranks 25th out of 58 at 2B OPS. He nearly single-handedly got us to the World Series, last year. 1-3 w BB v NYY in play-in game 1.329 OPS v TBR (2 HR & 6 RBI) 1.254 OPS v HOU (3 HR, 2B, 3B) At $7M x 2, he was worth every penny he made and deserved $10M/1 or MORE!
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Name one.
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My point was we made an offer, and it was a raise. Apparently, the Bogey camp made no counter offer, so it didn't go anywhere. I only said they offered Bogey a contract, first. I didn't get into which was a bigger lowball offer. (I'd have given Kike $25M/3, so maybe I'm trashing his offer, too.)
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Maybe some would be more understanding that the future looks brighter, but IMO, most would be pissed from the day of the fire sale until at least our first major winter addition.
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Would trading Vaz and JD (with $2.4M) be a fire sale and a complete packing in of the season? To many, just trading Vaz set the tone for giving up. Personally, I'd have traded everything not nailed down to control beyond 2023, unless we were sure we'd make a strong run to keep them- like Kike and maybe Wacha. I realize I was in the minority and am fine with others thinking that short-changing season ticket and pre-bought ticket fans is generally not a good business practice, but I see the longer term goals as being top priority, unless and until we look to be a top contender, again. I didn't see this team, even with a healthy sale, Wacha, Hill, Kike and Strahm as being a top contender. (I'm not one who believes in the crapshoot playoff theory.)
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I'm not disagreeing. I just haven't read it anywhere.
