moonslav59

Ironically, the one Kike play I remember most was the dropped fly ball. LOL. I remember JD's granny in game 2 that put us up 4-0, early. I remember the bats dying, all at once. I didn't remember the two plays you mentioned, until you mentioned them.

I learn something new, everyday.

Of course, that's what you choose to remember. I remember those, too. I also remember the Sox being down 1 game to none and losing 5-2 to the Rays in game 2. I remember Kike going 5 for 6 with the game tying HR, 3 runs & 3 RBI, including a later a double to set up Devers HR. I also remember him going 3 for 6 in game 3, with 2 RBI, including the game tying one, and later a HR to put us up 4-2. Without that, Vaz nevers get up. Maybe you forgot the walk of sac fly by Kike to send us to the ALCS, but I didn't. Maybe you forgot him going 4 for 5 in game 1 vs HOU w 2 R and 2 RBI, including another game tying HR and a second HR in the 9th to bring us to within one run. 2 for 4 the next game with another HR is the win. 2 for 4 in the game 3 win. He got 1 of the team's 5 hits in the game 4 loss. He went hitless in the 3 hit loss to HOU in game 5. That memory must be burned in your brain, and his 1 of the team's 2 hits in the final game, too. No, this does not compare to Fisk, or Papi, or many other great WS moments, but it does need to be forgotten, either. It's also not saying he's a star or super star. Saying he is not a sub does not mean I think he's a stud. The guy is a great defender. He's a decent hitter. He did very well, when it counted most, last year- something that seems to matter to you in other cases. Yes, he wasn't the only guy bringing us close to making the WS, but it's not meaningless, just because the rest of the team didn't do what was needed.

Not by "us" or "we." You and a few others feel as you do, but don't go saying "We agree..." to me.

No, I'm not trying to do that. You just think I am.

The both head the greatest cheaters list, if that helps.

Let's never mention Fisk's HR, Carb's HR and countless other great Sox moments that did not lead to a ring.

NO, "WE" won't. You and a few others can, if you want.

Even if you go by games started, which might be a truer measure of a sub vs FT'er, he rarely finished below 7th on his teams. (Don't count the pitcher or catcher for obvious reasons.) Baseball is not like the NBA, where a team's 6th man often plays way more minutes than a starter, but is called a sub. Games Started 2018 135 Bellinger 128 Taylor 119 Kemp 111 Grandal 107 Puig 104 Kike 6th 102 Muncy 94 Turner 2019 151 Bellinger 130 Muncy 125 Seager 122 Turner 109 Pederson 100 Kike 6th 90 Taylor 82 Verdugo 2020 (COVID) #7 Turner 42 #8 Pederson 38 #9 Smith 34 #10 Kike 32 2021 155 Devers 148 JD 143 Bogey 140 Renfroe 137 Verdugo 130 Kike 6th 122 Vaz 115 Dalbec Playoffs: 2017: Kike was 8th in LAD games played with 13 (1.172 OPS) 2018: 7th playoff games played with 15 (.486 OPS) 2019: 12th in gams played (3 of 5) w 1.500 OPS 2020: 8th (17 out of 18 gms) .755 OPS 2021: 1st in SOX playoff games played (11 of 11) 1.260 OPS

The only guy I'd move up is Williams, because of his service time taking away 20-30+ WAR. One could take ARod out, like I did Bonds. I kinda like Frank Robinson more than The Rickey, but I'm fine where he is.

I never said he was a star. Not even close. I said he is a great fielder. I said he had the best defensive CF Sox season in my memory as a Sox fan, and then walked that back. I said he had a very good 2nd half to 2021 and a superb playoff run, last year. He is not a sub and hasn't been for many years. He sucked, this year. He's not a super sub. Utility man is closer to the truth, but he's not a sub- super or otherwise.

Breaking News: Nobody said he was, but his 2021 playoff numbers where spectacular. Had we advanced to the WS or won a ring, maybe his name would be mentioned with Dave Roberts.

Now, it's "super sub." You make it sound like being a very good defender at many positions is a bad thing. Had he only been good at one, he would not be bounced around and would be a FT one position player. When he's healthy, he plays. That's not what most call a "sub," but please keep dissing as you wish, and yes, it IS downing him... as always.

The thing is, you single out only the worst stat on certain players, over and over. We know you know BA is not the be-all-end-all. With Renfroe, it was RBIs. With Schwarber, it's his power. With Kike, it's not defense or "clutch." It's BA and "utility man."

I'd that, too. I'm thinking Kike's 2021 (and playoffs) was worth $14M, by itself.

17th in fWAR. Even if you throw out Bonds, which of the ten do you supplant? 168 Ruth 150 Mays 149 Cobb 136 Aaron 131 Speaker 130 Williams 130 Hornsby 127 Wagner 127 Musial 121 Collins 11-15 116 Gehrig 114 ARod 112 Mantle 110 Ott 107 Schmidt 106 Rickey 104 F Robinson 99 Foxx 96 Mathews 95 Yaz

You must be talking about MVP.

He's not in my top 10, but in his own mind, he's top 1.

It shouldn't from you, any more than 2021 did after it was over.

That wasn't the question I answered. What about the 2022 Kike, a different question? He sucked. The injury did not give him much of a chance to change how much he sucked when he did play, but he sucked. His D did not outweigh how much he sucked on O. He sucked. Did I say he sucked enough for you?

Both in their own minds.

I don't see how that is the "company line," but you have your perspective. The team was not as bad as the W-L record showed. You all but admitted that, yourself. Now, 2022 is in the past, now, so it means nothing, right?

Just curious on your thoughts on Bloom's overall additions to the 2022 team. Was it a net plus or minus? (Just the additions) Story Wacha Schreiber (did pitch 3 IP in 2021) Refsnyder Hill Strahm Diekman JBJ (In season: McGuire, Pham, Hosmer, Abreu, EValdez, M Ferguson, C Rosier) Traded Away: Renfroe (In season: Vaz, Groome, Deikman) Net Plus or Minus?

It's not about making us feel fine. It's about trying to build a sustainable winning system and not repeating past mistakes. "Buying the company line?" I'm just going by past history, and I mentioned the fact that our history has had moments of "turning on a dime," and usually when that happened, we ended up suffering longer term consequences after a few moments of glory. We may go that path again. I don't know what the "company line" or plan is. I think I have an idea, and it seems to line up with my preference than maybe your all-in NOW idea, but at any moment, they may switch to your way.

I think this management team values defense, highly. They stuck with JBJ a long time. I think Rafaela will not be traded, despite him being one of the most sought after prospects we have.