moonslav59

At that money, and how it would affect who else we can sign for 3 years, Bobby D-Hosmer & Co. (Refsnyder, Arroyo and maybe later, EValdez)

He is supposed to be the defensive whiz behind the plate.

Chavis did okay, but yes, it's not like anything "bad" was all that meaningful, except that we really did need a 1Bman and 2Bman, when Story & Arroyo were bth out. I'd rather have kept him, so I called the trade bad. Not an earthshakingly bad trade.

It wasn't so clear to me, you meant only trades. I view the addition of Whitlock as closer to a trade than a amateur draft or IFA signing. The kid was ML ready the day we selected him, but I'm fine talking only trades. I agree, so far, we have seen very little production from who we got in players for prospect trades. I'm not saying Bloom did a good job on those trades, as a whole. I will point out that the Betts & Price trade looked forced, and from what we know about other offers, I'm not sure how you feel he could have or should have done better. The Beni trade is over on one half. Beni's team control ended. I still have some hopes for Wink, but if you want to call that trade "bad," okay. It very well could be. (Don't forget de la Rosa, though.) I've already said I hated the Renfroe trade from day one and dozens of times in between. No argument there. All the other trades were not stars traded away, and we have Pivetta, Wallace, German and Seabold remaining as hopefuls. All I said was I expect 1-2 to end up being meaningful. That was not meant as praise.

Fair enough, although ERod, JBJ and maybe soon to be JD, X & Nate left via free agency. Moreland was not someone you'd expect a great haul from, but Potts and Rosario are gone or not promising, at all. The Chavis trade looks bad, too. The Betts and Price deal has been discussed, enough. Personally, I don't think any better offers were out there, and if there were, they were not better by much. The Beni trade has not looked great, but it's not like beni it the world on fire, either, and his team control is now expired. Wink & de la Rosa's have not. The Workman-Hembree trade has worked out pretty well. Pivetta has done better than both combined, and Seabold still offers some faint promise. The 2 months of Vaz traded away for E Valdez and Abreu is way too soon to "expect more" from. The Pillar for Wallace trade may end up being one of Bloom's best. The trade of basically nothing for German should not be discounted either. Again, nobody is saying his trades for prospects have been great or even good. So far, it looks like they have just provided organization depth for the minor league teams only, except for Wink, Seabold and briefly Wong, Downs and German. Are you saying he should have only traded for ML ready players, or did you expect Luis de la Rosa, Hamilton, Binelas, Ferguson, Rosier and others to be in the bigs by now?

Yes, that's why one reason I said "may add" help. The other is that even if they are called up, they may not produce in 2023.

Yes, I know, but he was a Bloom pick-up that has already produced. Your post mostly mentioned prospects he brought in and you just touched on trades. Whitlock was already someone else's prospect before we got him. I think he fits your points made. On the trades, most were not trades of great players for a prospect or two or three. Even the Betts trade included a ML player. The Workman/Hembree trade gave us Pivetta (and Seabold). Should we have expected great things from Seabold? Beni brought us Cordero and 4 prospects, including Wink, who still may give us something good. The other 3 look sketchy, right now, but de la Rosa shows promise. The Renfroe trade brought us JBJ and Binelas and Hamilton. Hamilton was just added to the 40, so were were we supposed to see ML results from that trade, already? Ottavino and German. The only straight up ML'er for only a prospect were never really good players traded: Moreland for Rosario and Potts looks like a total miss. Pillar for Wallace could still be a very good trade for us. Springs and Mazza for RHern looks like a total flopper. I'm not hearing anyone saying Bloom's trades for prospects have been great, but his overall prospect additions have already shown better results than the 5 years from Devers to Bello/Casas, and it's been just 3 years. When you also add the fact that Bloom has drafted many HS players, what should the expectations have been? My answer? What we've seen minus Whitlock, so I'd say, we've already seen more than I expected and the near and far future looks much brighter and than I thought it could be after just 3years. The farm is deeper, stronger and set up for help this next year and everyone afterwards (in theory.) Nobody was saying that 2 years ago, 3 years ago, 4 years ago or 5 years ago. Did you really expect great things from Bloom's farm, already?

The vast majority we don't know how good they are or will be. We do know Whitlock is good. When you figure it takes 3-7 years to start seeing results, seeing Whitlock already looks pretty good to me. Looking at Kelly, German and Wink, with very little ML experience already, I'm thinking 1 or 2 should be good. Those yet to show anything cannot be judged, but on paper, it looks pretty good, and many of his trades added depth that should lead to at least 1 or 2 meaningful players, at some point: (I'm not sure how much better we could have expected.) Bloom's guys only (some not so good, so far, agreed) 2023 (and before): Whitlock, Wink, Seabold, Kelly, German, Wong, Downs, EVladez, 2024: Mayer, Wallace, Abreu, Hamilton, RHern, Binelas, Koss 2025: Hickey, Kavadas, Jordan, Drohan, Ferguson, Rosier 2006> Bleis, Romero, Anthony, Coffey, Rodriguez-Cruz, Brannon Lots of names- a few should do well, and that should beat the last 5 year record of: Houck Dalbec Duran

While true, he did acquire Whitlock, and guys like Kelly, German, Wink, E Valdez, Abreu and Hamilton may add some nice ML roster production in 2023. Bleis (IFA) may be joining the top 100 list by mid season 2023 and may be our best prospect, right now.

Dodgers meeting with Verlander. It appears their big spending will continue.

If we make the deal I'm hoping we do with the Marlins for a good SP'er, I wonder if we try to get Jacob Stallings included, the guy we tried to trade for before 2022.

Agreed, and his season was enhanced by timely hitting and more RBIs than his numbers indicated he should have had. Yes, he had many in an eight day stretch, but even if you take those away he was among the leaders on the team in RBIs/PA, and nobody is taking away other player's best 8 days.

Hard to know.

Rusney cost a fortune, too. We've done okay with IFA's, but not like the 4 year period of Bogey, Iggy, Montas, Margot and Devers.

Maybe it happened more by chance than by what actually happened in the meetings. Maybe teams want to do their due diligence more, now.

What part of Many of his pen building moves was unclear? I just pointed to 3 successful moves and gave a reason why (budget) maybe it hasn't been good. You chose to misinterpret my clear statement.

It's a GM meeting- not a GM and agents meeting. If anything, it would be a time where trades are made or discussions begun.

I may end up being wrong, but it wasn't sarcasm.

No, but it has not brought us anyone between Devers and Bello, except Moncada, who yes brought us Sale, but has not been all that great. When you couple this with no great draft picks that have helped us greatly since 2011, it's hard to find a better reason for our drop in rings since 2013- one in nine seasons.

Agreed, and my guess is all the ZIPs and other predicting services with give Story better O numbers, too, not just overall WAR, and for good reason.

Yes, it is, but we are talking a long time between Devers and Bello. I can't see one year being the major reason for that.

Usually, I think they estimate on the low side. This looks pretty generous in several areas.

Was my point saying Bloom did a fine job with the pen? I thought I said he had many misses, then named 3 guys and two hopefuls (leaving out Wallace). That sounds like the opposite of praise, to me.

Based on just 2022, I assume.

His late signing and spring training playing time did have him start the season by not playing everyday, until the second week of the season. Not making excuses. He was inconsistent in 2022, even when healthy.