moonslav59

Nobody said it, but they fail to realize that spending in one area means not spending in another. "We went over the tax line anyway, so we could have done both." Could and would is the key and flawed mindset switch, IMO.

Okay. I think DH was not a high need area, either, but it was above LF in the pecking order. $18M is about 20% of the assumed winter spending budget. IMO, these were our highest need areas: SP1 or SP2: still open SS: still open RF: still open Closer: Jansen Solid set up: Martin Pen depth: Joely C: still open DH: Yoshida (or Dugo, if we fill RF) or DH/RF or DH/1B (and trade Dalbec and/or Hosmer) SP3 or SP4: still open My biggest beef, so far, is we spent $50 of the $90M, counting the Kike extension, and filled one of our top 4 need areas (CF.) We have just $40M left and 3 major needs. We can trade to fill one or two, but that goes against the long term future priority. It looks like Mayer is going to be our next significant SS. I'm fine with that. I'm fine with signing Andrus or Segura (move Story to SS for just one year) to bridge to Mayer. This might leave $30M to fill the RF and SP needs. My guess is they go with Dugo and Ref in RF- perhaps ending up with a platoon, which on paper looks very nice- on offense, but that really makes their priority for RF defense and the whole JBJ fiasco look even worse- not that they care a bout their image, anymore. Senga is now off the board- some I think had more upside than Nate or Kluber + Wacha. Is Rodon a meaningful target? To me, he is not "the guy" you choose to overpay. Without parting with Mayer, what kind of ace can you trade for without pulling a DD and parting with 3-4 of our top 6 or 7 prospects? I'm not even sure we can get one without giving up Mayer. Maybe, next year, if Romero, Bleis and Yorke see their stock go through the roof. I'm not all that optimistic we pull off any deal or signing that wows me, but maybe JH will be moved by the intense disgust Sox Nation seems to be feelin, right now, and feels the need to do something he didn't want to do just a few days ago. He may have to force Bloom to do something he's against doing.

I don't agree on Betts. I do think they lied on Lester, but every GM does this sort of thing. They can't bad mouth a star just because they don't value them like the market does. Yes, they can be more truthful, and I wish they would. I don't think any fan would be offended, even if they disagree, if a GM or team spokesman just said, "We offered _____ what we felt was a very fair contract based on how much we value him. We wished he would accept it, but he did not, so we have to do what is best for the team and part ways." It's hard to say that before looking for a trade, because teams now know you are desperate to trade him, and may think they can hold the GM hostage and give less in return, so maybe that statement is made at the time of the trade. I seriously doubt these guys really believed what they were saying near the end. It was all for show, and they should now realize nobody is buying that kind of crap anymore.

I meant to say "hollow" not "hallow," and I agree. I do think they liked Betts more than Bogey and their offers show that, even more so when adjusted to inflation, but they did not like him as much as what Betts felt the market value was, at the time. I hated the Betts decision, but I felt like they did what they could, offered a pretty fair deal, and did what needed to be done when he turned it down. This whole Bogey thing was a ruse from day one. It sours me, too. If they do the same to Devers, my camel's back breaks, too.

Maybe it wasn't a look of shock; it was a look of realization that he and top brass were about to be subject to "heavy" lambasting by the media and fans. Their ruse about to be exposed. I'd turn white, too.

They have to, now, assuming they feel the same a bout him as they did with Bogey. They have to see how they handled Bogey turned out worse for the fans and their image than with the better player, Betts. Or, are they really that dumb?

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times, EFFF YOU!

I'm in total agreement here. Do they really think they are fooling anyone? I know taking the word of nearly any GM is foolhardy, but they need to realize their strategy is having the opposite affect they are hoping for. Fans are not dumb, and maybe Sox fans are less dumb than any. With the expansion of social media and access to so many commentaries, fans can see right through these ruses. Losing Bogey like this makes it worse than if they'd just come clean a year ago and said, "We just don't think he is of the value his agent thinks he is. We love him, but we need to do what is best for the team's future by trading him, now." Yes, fans would be pissed, like they were with the Betts trade, but this is worse.

How many here, knew the minute we signed Story, the odds of keeping Bogey were cut in half or not more? Many felt that way the minute the reported $30M one year addition to that current contract was given. I know some here might think I didn't like Bogey, weird talking about him in the past tense, but I did- and a lot. I has serious issues with his defense, and I think a guy like Bloom did, as well. They did not want to pay him like a great SS, because they did not see him as a SS going forward. I doubt the Padres do, too. I totally get the whole argument about how "WE COULD HAVE GOTTEN HIM FOR $__________!!!" (Fill in the blank.) I totally agree. My point has been, all along, that at any point you choose to estimate his current market value, the Sox never felt he was worth whatever that price and years were. It's really very simple, if you believe that. What evidence, other than the obligatory and courtesy statements made by Sox brass to placate rabid Sox fans on how much they love Bogey and "want him back" shows they ever felt he was worth market value. Look at their actions not their words. Not even the recent words that are saying, "We meant what we said about him" crap. Maybe, I'm wrong. My opinion is speculation. I know that. I felt that even when they made that final offer to Lester, they really did not want him, and made it just low enough, they knew he'd say no, That's total speculation, on my part, but under Henry, this team sets a price on the value of their own players and very rarely counter with a significantly higher offer (like Lester's) or let sentiment cloud their reasoning (like Schilling's one year pat on the back final contract.) All their sentimental extensions or re-signings seem to be, not coincidentally, one year deals, except maybe the Lowell one. Posters are free to pick apart anything the Sox brass does, but to me, any criticism should be over a disagreement on how the Sox valued Bogey vs how the poster valued him, and not these what if we signed him earlier. I'm not trying to force anyone into my way of thinking, but that criticism rings hollow, to me and maybe only me. o If Bloom was a fortune teller, and saw these prices about to shoot for the roof, here's my big "what if:" he'd have extended Bogey at whatever it took- say $180M/7 or even $200M/7 or 8, and then he'd have traded him at today's market prices, because he still doesn't think he's worth even $160M or $170M/6. That's my belief, and by the way, I do think he's worth $170M/6, but that's my max, even in today's inflated market.

The only beef I have over signing Yoshida is that LF was not a high need area. If we end up trading Dugo to fill another need in a decent way, that beef goes away.

But, hey, we fixed the pen! Wasn't that all we needed to do, according to so many, here. This could end up being a fine exemplar of how robbing Peter to pay Paul ends up leaving a team no better off. Yes, we could have signed Jansen, last year, but would we have been any better off with him over Wacha and Hill? We'd have needed to start Whitlock or Houck more or given Wink and Crawford 15-20 more starts each- or both! It's a balancing act.

It's happened, even with Henry, but just nowhere near this extreme. He's making the Rangers, Dodgers & Padres look like the Rays.

Maybe after they win a ring, he slows down.

Man, the excitement over this signing last what? Like 17 minutes?

When you hit over .300, they care. It's b een a very remarkable "tool," and he hits the ball hard- just not for a lot of homers. Think of the big Fenway RF and no shift. This guy may lead the league in BA and or Doubles. A slugging percent over .500 the last 2 years, thanks Bell, is a great "tool." I'm not sure why so many people are choosing to be so pessimistic. I understand he is hard to project or translate to MLB, but it's not like there is no history of success with batters from that league. I'm going the optimistic route with MY and hope I'm not wrong.

It seems very obvious to me. Don't confuse not understanding long term planning with not liking it.

I'm with you (and Bloom.) I'm for sustainable winning and not building just windows. That takes time and patience.

It's likely something DD would do (and also trade away Bleis, Rafaela & Mata), but in a few years from now, we'd be right back where we are, now. Dream, now: nightmare, later.

Or, trade Mayer, Dalbec & Walter to KC for Brady Singer & Michael Taylor

Would this highly unlikely change of events call off the fire bloom brigade? Sign Carlos Correa Trade Dugo for Urquidy Trade Mayer, Wong, Duran and Dalbec for Sean Murphy and Ramon Laureano 1. Yoshida LF 2. Story 2B 3. Devers 3B 4. Correa SS 5. Murphy C 6. Casas 1B 7. Kike CF 8. Laureano RF 9. Hosmer/Refsnyder/Arroyo DH SP: Sale, Whitlock, Bello, Urquidy, Pivetta (Paxton, Crawford, Winckowski, Seabold. Walter) RP: Jansen, Martin, Houck, Schreiber, Barnes, Joely, Taylor, Brasier (Kelly, German, Mata, Murphy)

So, he didn't get 7 years or $20+M as some reports said he was seeking. This seems like a deal the Sox might have/should have topped. The contract has an opt out after 2025.

Pretty sure we add 2-3 more pieces, minimum, but here is how our slots might line-up, right now: 1. L Yoshida LF 2. R Kike CF 3. L Devers 3B 4. R Story SS 5. L Casas 1B 6. L Verdugo/ R Refsnyder RF 7. L Hosmer/ R Dalbec DH (Verdugo could DH when Refsnyder is playing RF) 8. R Arroyo 2B (maybe at some point L Enmanuel Valdez) 9. L McGuire/ R Wong C SP1 Sale SP2 Whitlock SP3 Bello SP4 Pivetta SP5 Paxton SP/LR Crawford SP/LR Winckowski/Mata/Seabold/Walter/Murphy/Santos Closer Jansen RP2 Martin RP3 Schreiber RP4 Barnes RP5 Joely RP6 Brasier/Taylor/Kelly/German/Mata/Walter/Murphy/Ort/DHern/Wallace/Fernandez

I guess nobody is expected to play past 42.

Yup. Not great, but here are our last seven 4th rounders: Chase Meidroth Elmer Rodriguez-Cruz (Nathan Hickey in 5th Rd.) Shane Drohan Noah Song Kole Cottam (Thad Ward) Jake Thompson Bobby Dalbec One could say they were better than our 2nd and 3rd rounders most years.

This isn't the realistic thread, LOL. I think I'm closer on ERA than GS and IP. I think Sale, Whitlock and Bello might do better than I guessed but the others probably worse.