moonslav59

Only if you think Bogey was worth what he would have accepted as his lowest offer at any given point in time, right? Now, in hindsight, if you believe a player's value is set by whatever the dumbest GM is willing to pay, you might think, "We could have had him for $200M/8 18 months ago, and he's worth $280M, now, so we F'd up. I don't see it that way. What if he is not worth $200M/8 or even $170M/7 or 8? Maybe he does worse than Story over the next 5-8 years. Then, who screwed up anything? To me, the ral issue here is what the Sox valued Bogey at vs what each of us think he is worth or what he was worth 6, 12, and 24 months ago. the rest is all static in my ears.

Not a single poster here even supports 75% of Bloom's moves. I may be wrong, but I sense some posters only seem to talk about the bad moves Bloom makes, making it seem like they believe 90-95% of his moves and none moves have been bad. Which one is more "cultish?" (not my choice of words.)

You just used it twice.

lmao Not only totally untrue, but also ignoring the other "side" is the same. Name one poster who is cultishly loyal to Bloom. Like I said earlier, don't confuse laughter with anger.

The Kike $10M/1 and Story $140M/6 don't either.

One will likely be gone by opening day. I think Hosmer matches up better with Casas, and if Yoshida plays mostly DH, lefty-righty doesn't matter.

Certainly they do. Manny's physicals. Tito's "issues" and many, many other times.

Sometimes the $300M/10 agent offer is "leaked," too and everyone calls it absurd, too, although Bogey got close to that in the end. We don't know what second offers were made- or third and fourth. We don't even know if any counter offers were officially made. My guess is the Sox look at what they think other GMs will pay more than what Borass is asking. They huddle and determine, if it's worth coming close to that number with a counter offer. If no, they may not even bother making one. If yes, maybe they offer something close to what they think the market is and say come back to us, if we are close to the best offer out there. Maybe they intentionally make a pretty fair offer, for the sake of it looking like they tried, like I think they did in the end with Lester, knowing full well, he'll never take it. When the market too off, I don't think it mattered if the Six "misjudged" anything. They decided they were not going to pay "the market rate." It might not even be about them thinking he's not worth it. They might have just thought Mayer is not far away, so let's spend that money on other areas. Do any of us know the whys and why nots and essential details about how they made this choice?

"Conspiracy theory?" So, my opinions are conspiracies and yours are what? Had we wanted Bogey at market prices, he'd have been signed. That's not rocket science. They don't lie to fans as "payback." That makes no sense. They say things that make fans think they respected Bogey and wanted him back, and that could all be true- not a lie. They just wanted him back at less than one of two things: market value or Borass' lowest number. Your claim they "misjudged the room and the value of Bogey" is just as conspiratorial as my opinion. IMO, they knew what the market was 2 years ago and one year ago, and did not want to pay it. Sure, everyone misjudged what he ended up getting paid, but that has zero to do with us getting him or not. We were never coming close to that, whether we misjudge it or not. This whole line about Bloom feeding JH the wrong information is beyond any conspiracy theory you say my position is. It's absurd and total hogwash, IMO. Is it possible the Sox really wanted Bogey but not at the price it would have taken at any given stage of the situation and changing market values? If so, it's not a lie saying "We want him," or "He's a top priority." I think many think this can be or is the truth. Where my position differs is, and I said it is pure speculation (which is not conspiracy) is that the Sox knew all along they were so far apart on what they wanted to pay Bogey and what Borass was asking for and what they felt the market rate was, at every moment on the timeline. IMO, they wanted him but knew they'd never pay the price needed, so much of their statements were disingenuous or misleading to the media and public. They made it sound like wanting him and making him a top priority meant we had a chance and were trying to bring him back, when they knew full well, it was never going to happen. IMO, Bloom never lied or misinformed JH or others. They knew what Borass was asking for all along. They chose to sign Story, last March. They chose to offer Bogey $30M = 1 year to his contract. they all heard the outrage and decided not to upgrade their offer by enough to keep him. It's not all that complicated to think this could easily be what happened. Granted I may be slightly wrong or very wrong in some of many aspects of what I just said.

We aren't signing Swanson. We may not sign Andrus, as he will likely get 2-3 years somewhere else. I guess we could sign Andrus to 2 years and if mayer is ready, quickly, find some solution.

They said it, not me. I could see us signing Segura or Drury for 2B, maybe Andrus at SS. I don't think or want Kike moved from CF, especially with so few options out there to add for CF.

MLBTR on the Sox... https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/12/red-sox-notes-middle-infield-rotation-houck.html They seem to think Story is our SS, unless an addition is made (Andrus or trade candidates). Kike at 2B, or we sign Segura or Drury for 2B. Not many CF options, though.

Until recently, the Sox have done a pretty good job knowing just when to let go of some of their best talent. We are not really sure about how Betts and Bogey will finish out their contracts. We saw what Lester did (ouck!) We saw what Beni did (not so ouch.) I can list over a dozen players we let go who did not do great things afterwards, starting with Pedro, AGon and Beckett. We missed on keeping Sale instead of Betts.

They did lie or convey lies, but no, that post was partially in jest. The front office let a player go they had no intention of ever signing near market value. They botched the way they presented that to the fans and media, and the media made it worse and added untruths to stir up the pot. I sensed an uplifting mood, here until we read reports the Sox were about to sign Bogey (a lie), then when he signed with SD, this place went bonkers. Without that report and others, I don't think the mood would be this angry, but many would still be pissed. I'm not saying Sox management didn't feed some of these stories and string fans along with untruths or statements they may have meant but knew would never come about. I'm pissed, too, but not for the same reason many here are. (just my take.) Do we even know, for sure, what offers we made and when?

I see 3 holes. They may see 5. With $40M, that's enough for Kluber, Andrus and Gallo, but I'm not sure they get even one of them. $40M/5 is $8M each or $10M x 3 plus $5M x 2. That's not bringing any studs, but we can get a couple good fitting players. If we trade for a cheap player or two, we could sign Swanson- but we won't.

Yes, we could have signed Correa and not added pitching, unless by trade. We can still sign Rodon. We cans till sign Swanson & Kluber. We won't, but it's not because of Yoshida and his contract. It seems like some just want to expect the worst in everything.

Signing players who are 30 years old to long term deals is usually what is "stupid," but I guess it's hard to imagine there even being a chance our guys ever decline as they age. Maybe the idea of signing guys for 3-6 years at $80-140M is the "new plan." It's hard to know, just yet, if it's any better than spending more on fewer players and counting on your farm to fill the gaps.

Where is the $40M going to be spent, or are we just staying way under the line? We could trade for a bloated deal, perhaps as throw-in to offset the return on getting a key second player. Maybe Bloom is looking to add 5 more players. He did say they wanted to add 8-9 players. We've added 4. SS RF SP C P Maybe after the last of the big FAs sign, there will be a trading frenzy.

With an AAV less than $30M, I'd have been okay with th Sox signing Correa, but we all know that was always just a pipedream. No way we sign Rodon. Swanson is a less than a tenth of a percent. I'm thinking... Kluber Gallo or Conforto (This fixes RF and DH as Yoshida/Dugo/Ref share LF/DH duties. It also would likely mean bye-bye to Bobby Dee via trade) Andrus (Maybe Segura with Story at SS for 1 year?)

I fixed this for you...

I agree. I think we'll sign Gallo or Conforto and trade Dugo or play him in LF/DH and share with Yoshida. I'm going with Kluber, Andrus & Gallo, unless we make a trade.

Yoshida over most of the FA pitchers on this year's sad SP'er market, yes, indeed. The ones I liked cost way more than $105M. We need to get a SP'er via trade, but I'm not sure that's in the works.

You keep believing reporters. This may be true, but I'm never sure. Maybe they overpaid him by a little or a lot. If he produces, it may not matter much.

I have to think we will be adding a SP'er. My hope is still for a 1/2 via trade, but I'm not counting on it, this winter. More likely, our best hope might be Kluber, who should be a big improvement over Crawford/Wink/Seabold. Let's say we add Kluber, I think our starting is weaker than 2022, on paper, but maybe deeper, since we now have Bello and Whitlock in the 5, and Mata, Walter and Murphy are ML ready or very near being ready. They can all pitch quite a bit without "starting their clocks." With Kluber: 1. Sale & Paxton combined (If they can get together and plan out their IL stints to not coincide with each other, that would be great!) 2. Kluber 3. Whitlock 4. Bello 5. Pivetta 6. Crawford/Winckowski/Seabold (Houck?) 9. Mata/Walter/Murphy/Santos Last year: GS Pitcher (IP as SP only) 33 Pivetta (180) 4.56 26 R Hill (124) 4.27 23 Wacha (127) 3.32 20 Eovaldi (109) 3.87 14 Wink (67) 5.75 12 Crawford (61) 5.43 11 Bello (52) 4.82 9 Whitlock (39) 4.15 5 Seabold (18) 11.29 4 Houck (17) 4.32 3 Davis (6.1) 0.00 2 Sale (5.2) 3.18 72 GS'd are gone- maybe a 3.75 ERA. Hopefully, no starts from Crawford, Wink and Seabold (31 combined) + 4 from Houck. Whitlock gets 23 more GSd to replace Wacha's 23. Bello gets 20 more to replace Nate's 20. Kluber gets 26 starts to replace Hill's 26 This leaves the 36 GS'd from the scrubs + Houck to be filled by??? A. 18 Sale + 18 Paxton B. 12 Sale + 12 Paxton + 12 Crawford/Wink/Seabold/Mata & Co. C. 8 Sale + 8 Paxton+ 20 from others.

We may be worse at run prevention in RF with Dugo in RF not JBJ, but more time from Casas, Kike and Story should more than make up for that and who plays SS? I'm not predicting great things from some of these players- just a little better health from Kike and Story. The floor set by the 2022 numbers is not some tough line to cross for guys like Yoshida and Casas. They just have to improve on... .652 Dalbec (353 PAs) .578 JBJ (290) .697 Cordero (275) .672 Phamn (235) .645 Duran (223) That's over 1,300 PAs. I think it is realistic to project improvement not optimism. Don't you? Another view by position: .683 1B add Casas .694 LF add Yoshida .671 CF add more Kike .661 RF add Dugo and more Ref (platoon looks to be over .800) .763 DH add Yoshida/Dalbec/Hosmer Hope we can improve on .724 at 2B and .856 at 3B is not too optimistic, at all. The tough ones are SS .815 and C .694.