moonslav59

What happens if we find out Bloom wanted to offer Bogey a deal BorA$$ would have accepted, but JH said no? OOoooop! (Same with Devers.) Not saying it happened, but wouldn't it be funny?

Nice non answer. I don't recall you ever ordering a worst 5 list, so I'll just assume you are too chicken to give your opinion and prefer to just slam others' opinions. It took you a month to just give one name. It fits your pattern. Got it.

You may not like my answers, but I do try to answer all your questions. Can you answer this one?

Why not supply your list?

You think had DD stayed, B & B would still be here ?

All Sox are grossly over-rated, although BTV rates that deal as pretty close to even.

I baffles my mind they may move two excellent defenders off their best positions rather than find a 1 year SS. Now, that may be a fireable offense by Bloom, but curiously, the Bloom-bashers seem to miss the obvious ones.

I knew you'd never name your top 5. Typical. No, I don't count an initial offer in a negotiation as a possibility of a worst move made by a GM. It matters zero, if we never were going to pay what BorA$$ wanted.As far as I know, we never did, or he'd be signed, so a first offer does not make my top 5 list. As far as a "counter," you must know more about all the offers made than anyone else. Please enlighten us and provide links. (LOL, yeah right! Good luck with that.) Upon further thought, my worst 5: 1. Renfroe trade 2. Not resetting in 2022 3. Not trading Bogey last year (assuming they were pretty sure they'd never offer what it would take, which I'm not so sure was ever true.) 4. Richards signing 5. Paxton signing (I forgot about that one, when I said Perez.) 6. Perez signing (I may change some, if someone reminds me of bigger mistakes.) On Bogey, if we find out, later, we could have had him for $160M/6, I'd think that was a mistake, but again, it's pretty early to know. Afterall, I liked and still like the Story signing, but I may end up being wrong or very wrong. We know the Renfroe trade sucked. We know the Richards signing sucked. We know what Paxton gave us for $6M- nada.

A more likely theory was that he was fired for spending as much as allowed, trading away 20 prospects that were top 20, at some point, and only creating a 3 year window and a very bleak long term outlook. When they sat down to discuss the direction, he asked for more money for 2020 than they gave him for 2019.

I'm not sure either, but to me, it was probably more about price. Maybe moving off SS was part of the reason they set his value lower than BorA$$ did, but I do think they wanted him back. It's all conjecture, no matter which side you are on. I do think it's pretty obvious we never wanted him at the price BorA$$ demanded- something Ole Red thinks is some wild conspiracy theory that only I hold. (Cue: "Where did I ever say that?")

It doesn't matter at all to you that he was handed a top 5 farm and a checkbook even Theo would have gawked at. You think We'd have done better, these last years had Bloom traded Casas, Bello, Mayer, Rafaela, Mata and others? You think he should have? You think he could have? No, you won't even think about it, or you can't even see it with all the sand filling in around your head.

Still waiting for your top 5. I said why I don't count Betts, and there isn't enough info on the Bogey issue to say it was Bloom or that it was his fault we missed out on a decent deal or not, since we don't know if that was ever possible. If it turns out, it was possible, AND Bloom was the one who kept JH from making that offer, then yes, that would make my top 3 list. What's your top 5 Blunder list? You probably have it tattooed on your chest. It's easy to criticize others when you don't give your position. Let's have it.

If Sale has a great first half of 2023, a deadline deal might become worth while. I would not trade him, now.

Indeed, and if we don't win, someone must be to blame. It could not possibly be a set of circumstances that no GM could overcome. Nope. Blame the GM and not even a hint of the chance most had unrealistic expectations to begin with. 27 GMs should all be fired. No rings in 3 years! Here and NOW or bye bye!

No doubt, but because many choose to stick their heads in the sand, doesn't mean I'll do the same. BTW, I'm not sure if making lists proves anything either, of that more good moves means better. The bad m oves magnitude might have outweighed the good, or if he is doing good at 55% and other GMs are doing 60% good, then 55% is not good. I totally understand that GMs are graded on the end results by the vast majority of fans. I get it.

Or, that maybe they wanted him back but just never at... 1. The prevailing market rate at any given point on the timeline. 2. The lowest offer BorA$$ would accept. Note: these two numbers may never have converged.

I agree, the $30M/1 year added to the team friendly deal he signed 3 years ago was a joke. What I'd like to know is what was BorA$$'s offers along the way. If they were higher than I felt we should pay, all along the way, I'd find it hard to blame anyone for not paying it. I know I'd never have paid $250M, let alone $280M. If it turns out we offered $160M/6 last winter and $180M/7 or even $200M/8, later, and Bogey said no, I have no issues with the offers. Should he and others been locked up before or even long ago, under DD? Of course. I'm fine with blaming Bloom and maybe even DD for not doing that, but we are not sure they'd have ever said yes. I've agreed with your position on trading them, if we knew we could not sign them, but I'm not sure they ever felt like Betts would turn down $300M/10 or Bogey $___/__.

If they thought he was worth what BorA$$ would take, he'd have been signed. That's not some wild theory. As to who decided what he was worth or how much they would ever pay, I'm not sure we'll ever know, for sure. You can believe it was on Bloom. I believe they have a set way of assigning value that predated Bloom and might have been slightly or moderately affected by Bloom adjustments to that formula. Maybe more than I think it was. If BorA$$ wanted $250M/9 while Bloom set his value at $180M/7, I'm still not sure a mistake was made. You obviously think it was a slam dunk mistake, and Bloom led the top brass into the darkness. Nice theory. Attack Bloom at all cost. What Bloom might have "misread" is what other teams would pay, but it still doesn't mean he'd have offered more than what the team thought he was worth. If he thought Bogey was worth $200M/8 and would have given him that, but he got $280, I'm not so sure that's misreading anything. Someone else valued him more and offered him something no other GM offered. How is that a clear mistake by Bloom? Even if he thought he was worth only $160M/6, we won't know if that's a mistake until 6 years from now. "Read the room wrong?" You really think he went to JH and Co, and said we think Bogey is worth ____ and might be offered ___ by other teams, and everyone said, " We trust everything you came up with on your own."

If you think Bloom is the reason Bogey is gone, fine. (Same with Betts & Half-Price.) Giving reasons why we think the Sox top brass did not think Bogey was worth whatever the lowest price BorA$$ would have taken at any point in negotiations is not an attempt to discredit Bogey. We all wish he was back.

Which is also reflected in the "+" part of OPS+.

I don't blame Betts or Bogey on Bloom. We can rehash this for the 100th time, if you wish, but yes, his biggest mistakes were: 1. Renfroe 2. Richards 3. Perez Okay, Marwin, Andriese and Diekman sucked more, but if you think $3M dollar signings are bigger mistakes, then Bloom is better than even you think. Maybe he could have gotten slightly more for Betts, so that's not top 3. Maybe he could have met whatever BorA$$ would have taken much earlier in the process or traded him earlier, but until I know the specifics, I'm not counting that as top 3. Even if we could have gotten Bogey for $225M/8 or even $200M/8 of $80M/7, we can't say it's a mistake just yet. I'm fine with you and others saying it is, and I may place it top 3, once more info is known. What are your top 5. What are the best 5 moves Bloom has made? Let's compare.

I think the direction is to build for the future while trying to at least appear to be semi-competitive along the way.

They were ahead of the curve. Their tanking for a few years helped boost the amount of good prospects they have, but they did other things right, too.

Dodger, Astros, Braves and even teams like the Mets and Padres, who are going nutty with spending have seen way more meaningful prospects contribute than Houck in 5 years. Seriously, how easy is it to build a winning team with just Houck and a budget not even large enough to offset Betts, half Price and Porcello until the Story signing 2.5 years into Bloom's tenure? People expected a miracle, denied it would have been a miracle to win a ring in the past 3 years, and now find one guy to blame all the misery on out of convenience.

I'm sure you blame Betts, Bogey and even Sale, yes you said Sale was Bloom's fault as the 3 biggest failures. Keep your blinders in place.