moonslav59

Just paying Betts a little more and keeping half-Price on the books at full price and no Sale would have done wonders, but if JH asked whoever the GM might be in 2020 to cut the budget to the level it was cut to, I seriously doubt anyone could have created a highly competitive team in 2020. One could argue 2021 was a stretch and ended up being close to a miracle. It's hard to build a winner with a reduced budget and no farm help.

When the major part of the plan is to rebuild the farm, and I'm not saying Bloom has done a good job at that, either just what "evidence" should we see after 3 drafts and IFA signing periods, especially when you consider we added mostly HS players? Devers was fast-tracked and still played more in the minors in his 3rd year (2017) than the bigs. Mookie did not get more than 340 PAs at any level in the Sox minor and still took 5 years to play more games in MLB than the minors. Bogey was rushed into MLB action at 3B in 2013, and he too played more games in the minors, year 4 than the bigs. This is not apologizing for Bloom. It is stating the reality of expectations for getting results from the farm. Did you expect stud prospects to not only get to the bigs in 1-3 years but also mature and be stars, already? It's about expectations by fans. Obviously we had differing ones back in 2020. I have no beef with criticizing the free agents he has chosen to sign. He's had more bad than good, and isn't off to a good start, this year. Bloom has not done a good job at turning the big league club into a winner and many feel not even to the level of hoping we can win. I get that. To me, the jury is still out on what I think was his major priority- building the future through farm-building. There is evidence to support this, as DD traded over 20 top 20 prospects to Bloom's 3. Bloom has traded for more prospects than he has traded away. DD was probably at a 10:1 ratio the other way. I may be in a minority, these days, but I think our extended future looks way brighter than it did after 2019, and that was even before Bloom was hired and Betts was traded away. I know I was not alone, back then, thinking the day of reckoning was pending due to the state of the farm (no major prospects since Devers) and the state of the budget and JH's history of cycling from paying the lux tax into re-setting it and going into rebuild mode (as with Ben.) No doubt, Bloom has not done as well as any of us expected or hoped for, in terms of building the 26 man roster into a strong contender, but some of us knew it might take more than 3 years, and that the farm has taken precedence since even DD's last year as GM.

You think Bloom came in and talked JH into slashing the budget. I don't see any evidence that allows fans to believe that. Please provide a source. I ask, which do you think is more likely? As fans, we can believe what we want to believe or choose to not take either position.

Certainly, even the longer term look at the Sox foundation has holes in it. Most teams do not have every slot accounted for 3-5 years out, but I'm not sure we have any less than them, and if Bloom's job was to plan to fill as many holes as possible, has he done enough? I'd say the answer is definitely up for debate, and any support for Bloom would be based mostly on projections and speculations. Here is the "foundation" for 2025: Sale, Whitlock, Bello, Houck, Mata, Walter, Winckoski, Crawford, Schreiber, Mills, Murphy, Drohan McGuire, Wong Casas, Dalbec Story, EValdez Mayer, Hamilton Devers, Lugo Yoshida Rafaela Duran, Abreu Kavadas 2027 Whitlock, Bello, Mata, Walter, Wikelman, Perales, Houck, Wink, Craw, Murphy, Kelly, Drohan, E R-C, Mills Wong, Hickey, Brannon Casas, Kavadas, Jordan Story, Bonaci Mayer, Romero Devers, Lugo Yoshida Rafaela Bleis, Anthony, Duran Yorke, Paulino There are some promising slots, but lots of questions, too.

You can view it as apologizing for Bloom, but he was told to trade Betts and include half-Price. Nobody in their right mind looks and says verdugo is as good as Betts, but look at the context. Price was part of the deal, and there were not many offers being made. Should Bloom have told JH, sorry, I refuse to follow your orders, because I can't stomach the return I can get for Betts & Price? Call us "apologists" all you want, but I really don't see it that way. Bloom was forced to do something none of us liked or wanted. Has Betts accepted the $300M offer, would that have made Bloom a genius? If the budget mandates stayed the same, he'd have had to trade a ton of other players to reach JH's demands. It was not his choice. That's not apologizing, it's just stating facts. Yes, JBJ, Vaz, beni and ERod are another tier, but the point made seemed to be we should keep our fan favorites for as long as possible, even if they begin to decline or even suck (like JBJ.) It was a critique of the team philosophy of taking away pretty much all of our longterm fan faves, except Devers with the hint that he was next, because this is the new way brought on by Bloom, or at least he being the most responsible for it. No doubt, Bloom has blundered. I listed many of them and what I felt were the major 3. There is no apologizing for that, from me. It's easy to sit back and proclaim, "Bloom should have gotten much better than verdugo for Betts and half-Price." Most leave out the mention of Price, because it helps their narrative. It was a big part of the reduced return value, IMO. Choosing Downs as part of the package was really bad. There is no sugar-coating that. As for frugality- I choose to think Bloom is not the decision maker on that. He did to convince JH to spend less, so no, I don't blame him for budget cutting. I do blame him for making the wrong signings on the money he did have to spend.

Yes, indeed. Most of the key players on that 2018 team were from the farm of 3-7 years prior or traded for from the farm of 2016-2018. The trades and heavy spending stopped while DD was still here, BTW. 2019 was not a year of prospect trades or big signings. Many blamed the downturn on not bringing back or replacing Kimbrel & Kelly, in kind. The downturn began that year, when we made no effort to even stay even. No farm influx from 2017 to Casas and Bello, and even they may fizzle has a lot to do why that 2018 strong roster was not kept strong. For years leading up to 2018, more and more young players were added to the team. That stopped with Devers. Add to that, mandated budget slashing, and DD might have quit under those circumstances. he might have tried to trade Houck, Casas, Bello and others and been told no.

If you think keeping DD would have caused JH to open his wallet for 2020 and 2021, I'm not sure why you think that. Also, that 2020 lost Sale and ERod for the whole season. DD would have had to grossly overspend to make up for that, while still paying Betts and full Price. Do you really think it was Bloom's choice to massively slash the 2019 budget?

He was making good money off the Sox when winning, too.

If we keep Houck in the rotation, I'd like to have both Wink and Crawford as long men in the pen. Our starters only go 5, and Houck shoulkdn't go past the 18th batter, so keep Crawford and send Kelly and Ort down. Bleier may be the next on the hot seat.

He did add Whitlock, who was technically a prospect when added, but your point stands. Winckowski is about the only other Bloom added prospect that has done anything, so far. (It does take time for prospects to mature and then make an impact.) After 3 drafts and IFA signing periods, one would expect more of our top prospects to be Bloom's, although it's not uncommon for it to take 2-3 years for most prospects to shine. soxprospects: (Casas should now be graduated) 1. Mayer 3. Bleis 6. Yorke 7. Romero 11. Anthony 12. Drohan 15. Valdez (via trade) 16. E R-C 18. Jordan 19. Hickey 20. Kavadas 21. Alcantara 23. Coffey 24. Abreu (via trade) 25. Guerrero 26. Hamilton (via trade) 26. Kelly (miLFA) Koss, McDonough, Meidroth, Brannon...

It is 4 more than many of our previous owners and ownership groups. I wonder, if he still has the drive to want more, of it's just about money, now.

There has been a remarkable change in how many prospects, especially top ones, were traded under DD vs Bloom. That is something similar to "The Rays Way," but without noticeable results, as of yet, except for maybe 2021. DD traded over 20 prospects and young players that at some point were top 20 prospects with the Sox. What top prospects has Bloom traded? Aldo Ramirez? Jacob Wallace? Jay Groome? There has been an obvious shift towards rebuilding the farm and a young player foundation. The have certainly been bumps along the way, and many of the trades for prospects were dud or appear to be heading that way. That does not change the fact that an effort was made to change the philosophy and strategy towards a longer term and more sustainable system. I'm not defending the fact that we should be seeing concrete results, by now. I expected better by this year, and while I think our future looks way brighter than it did during and after 2019, and certainly better than after the Betts trade, the big club should be better than this. We are not spending like the Rays or any other small market team. We just laid out over $650M since the Story signing and including the devers extension, which has not kicked in, yet. The 2018 team was built from several prospects for stud trades, but also from a strong farm that existed 3-7 years prior to that magical season. We had 21 year old Devers, 23 year old Beni, 25 year olds Betts and Bogey along with 27 & 28 year olds Vaz and JBJ. That's 6 of the 9 positions from the farm. I'm not here to bash DD. I like what he did and think it was all worth it. He actually left a better farm than I think any of us expected. We got Houck and now have casas, Bello, Mata and others he added to the farm knocking on the door, but that gap between Devers & Co and this new crop was just way too long and way too crippling. Couple that lack of homegrown talent coming up with reduced spending and we have what we have, today. Our best hope looks to be years from now. I've not given up on 2023, but this is looking real s*****. It was hard to recover from the reality that our farm gave the big club, basically nobody (Houck?) since Devers was called up in 2017, which is closing in on 6 years, and expecting a farm to make up for that long drought after just 3.5 years at the helm may be expecting too much, but with the budget Bloom was given, since the Story signing, we should be better or at least look more promising than we do, so far in 2023.

I bashed Bloom for bringing back JBJ more than anyone here. I don't think keeping Vaz, an aging JD and Nate and ERod would have been good for the team or fans. It's not about the money. JH spent more replacing these guys than it would have cost keeping them. I agreed on Bogey. We offered Betts a fair deal. You are confusing what "apologist" means. Yes, I've defended Bloom on things I think he needed to be defended, but I've criticized ima lot. Mostly, I provide context, which often looks like a defense, but isn't and was not intended to be apologies.

Pivetta went 5 with no ERs and only 3 hits & 2 BB vs these Rays. The game before that, Crawford went 5 IP with 1 ER (5H & 0BB) v DET. The game before that: Houck 5 IP 2 ER, 3H and 2 BB v DET Kluber's last start was nice: 5 IP, 1 ER, 3H & 1 BB Pivetta had another game with 5 IP and 1 ER (3H & 1 BB)

Actually, it is kinda hard to imagine, because he rarely does it. (Actually, 4th is an important slot.) 2021 Best OPS+ 140 BLowe 136 Zunino 129 Aroz. 127 Franco 115 Meadows 114 Choi 110 Diaz 14th NCruz at 101 PAs 3rd 148 Cruz 135 Meadows 124 Franco 72 Aroz 54 Diaz 51 Choi 4th 233 Meadows 171 Diaz 96 BLowe 65 Aroz 47 Margot 2022 OPS+: 144 Diaz 125 Aroz 120 HRam 118 Franco 115 Choi 115 Paredas 106 Margot 103 B Lowe 3rd 206 Aroz 122 HRam 87 Franco 81 Choi 79 Diaz 4th 187 Choi 171 Aroz 144 HRam 45 Peralta

Just like that: we turn what was looking pretty good into a cluster EFFFF!

I think all fans like their team to keep their good and well established players. I do, too. There does come a time, when it's not helpful to the team, like letting JBJ go, although we ended up bringing him back. Vaz was good, but he was up and down at the plate and seemed to have issues getting the most out of the staff.

1.154 OPS vs the Sox, before today. He's like .830 vs everyone else.

We should just IBB Brandon Lowe every AB, even if the bases are loaded.

Kluber walks one guy, all day, and it's Josh Lowe. Of course, it bites us in the ass.

He was forced to trade Betts after he refused a $300M offer. That's about as different as it can get. He botched the Bogey negotiations, but I still wonder, if he ever wanted him at even $160M/6. I'm also not sure Bogey would have taken even $180M/6, so it's kinda hard to pinpoint a mistake. Vaz? Meh. JD? It was time for him to go. Nate? Same ERod? Looks like the right choice. Are you glad we chose to extend Sale?

I set mine: never. I was responding to Hugh who suggested he'd be on our 2024 opening day roster.

Did Kluber think he was facing Brandon Lowe, there? (Not Josh.)

So true.

Sarcasm? Also, we avoid putting high OBP guys up first. (They also batted Devers 3rd way too much, in the past. Third most every season since 2018.) Our 3 slot batters over recent years: 2022: 312 Bogey (2nd on team in OPS+) 290 JD (3rd) 2021: 454 JD (3rd) 202 Bogey (2nd) 2019-2020: JD and Bogey 2018: JD & HRam