moonslav59

I'm with you. While I am holding out hope, I refuse to accept things have changed, until I see it happen. I thought Gray was a good idea due to the shorter deal. I think ERod probably wanted to avoid BOS, but I could be wrong. I'd prefer Monty, Imanaga, and of course Yamo to ERod, anyway, so until they are off the boards (and trades are done), a final grade cannot be given.

We were never getting Ohtani or Nola. Gray might have been a steal. We don't know how active he is on pursuing Yamo, or even Snell and Monty. He might be going toe-to-toe. For argument's sake, say the Yamo bidding ends at $360M/12, but JH set the limit at $350M (not likely, but follow along,) who's fault is it, if he signs elsewhere for more? It can't be Breslow's. Are we really going to bash JH for not going to $360 on a kid who has never played MLB? There has to be a line, where it becomes insane. We all probably have a different number in mind. (Jad's is probably $3 billion.)

Yes, I know the difference, but I was answering an inquiry. Also, the tactics amount to the same thing: skirting the AAV and tax system. Differments are fine, but his years of control is 10. IMO, the rule should be the AAV is $70M x 10.

Why don't they deserve an owner that wants to win? Fine, throw out the bottom 10 budget teams, except the Rays, and there are still 10+ teams that all have fanbases that have legitimate gripes about not winning rings and really not trying hard to. IMO, we have not tried hard to win since 2018. I think this all began when JH let KImbrell and Kelly go, without trying to replace them in kind. It's been 5 full years. Other cities have gone way longer than that. Don't get me wrong: I want JH to snap out of his funk and join the big boys, again. I'm just saying, I think we have become spoiled, to some extent. The fan base seems angrier, now than during all the gaffes and heartbreaks from the decades before JH .

Yes. My point is, we let stars go, before. We had spending lulls, before. There was not a big problem with that, until we stopped winning rings. Two sets of last place finishes in 3 of 4 years set off a hunt for the reason why. IMO, it has not been just one thing, but letting stars go is not high on my list, except Betts. Spending cuts hurt the team from 2019-2021, but we had 2-3 year stretches of that before. (Being coupled with losing Betts & others hurt.) To me, the main reasons were: A weaker than weak farm pipeline, highlighted by the stretch from Devers to Bello/Casas. Poor winter budget spending with too little focus on spending on pitching. Letting stars go and cutting winter budgets. A choice to roll the dice on too many oft-injured players. The perfect storm of all these factors went beyond what FEMA could fix.

All the top 11 signings were from Crawford in 2011 and afterwards. The whole top 13 were from Lackey in 2010 and beyond. Of course, contract costs skyrocketed, and Manny was signed before the JH era. Those big signings, back then, when adjusted for inflation and MLB inflation were better. Papi, Pedro, Damon, Foulke, Mueller, Beltre, Beckett. Sure, we had some bad ones, but out hit rate was much higher, so we could absorb them. The farm pipeline helped, too.

One could argue the Porcello contract was just okay, but I agree. The interesting thing is, that from the great stretch of winning, we still let a lot of good to great players walk. (Yes, a few past prime, but some, not really.) Nixon DLowe Nomar Mueller Pedro Manny Youk Papelbon Damon Beltre Agon Beckett Jake Lester, Lester, Doubront, Peavy & Miller, the year after 2013. Hell, some cried we let Masterson go. These are guys let go or traded before DD & Bloom.

Why do we deserve it more than other cities? BTW, I'll take the 2014-2023 stretch over '72-'01, ten times over. Yes, 2004-2013 was awesome!

The Big Corner has a wide range of opinions.

I don't either, but I hope for the least we can get him for.

I hope they go under $300M and get him.

You hear some weird stuff on Red's Big Corner.

MLBTR reported.... The Padres were known to have made a spirited run at Aaron Judge between their pursuit of Trea Turner and eventual agreement with Xander Bogaerts. Bob Nightengale of USA Today suggested this week the Friars were prepared to put forth an offer around $400MM (Twitter link)...Jon Heyman of the New York Post added some clarity on the matter last night, reporting the Padres were preparing an offer to Judge that’d have reached or exceeded $400MM over a whopping 14-year term. However, Heyman further hears Major League Baseball would have been prepared to veto such an arrangement if the sides had agreed upon it. Of course, it proved to be a moot point once Judge decided he wanted to return to the only organization he’s ever known.

I was thinking that, too. They had an issue with that $14 year contract for someone. I forget who.

I'm not arguing these teams are great. I was just addressing points made about his spending. He has cut back, several times. I think the ring in 2013 was not really planned, but yes, those teams were better than 2020-2023 and probably 2019, too. One big problem is how many times we have swung and missed on our biggest signings, compared to the Theo era. DD struck gold at a great rate, too, but the losing stretches, to me, was more of a result of poor spending than cut spending. Theo, Ben and DD all saw cut spending for at least a year. They all won a ring. (Theo 2.) How many of these big signings have clearly worked out well? 217 Price '18 DD 154 AGon '12 Ben (extension) 145 Sale '20 DD (extension) 142 Crawford '11 Theo 140 Story '22 Bloom 120 Bogey '20 DD (extension w opt out) 110 JD '18 DD 110 Pedey '14 Ben (extension) 95 Pablito '15 Ben 90 Yoshida '23 Bloom 88 HRam '15 Ben 83 Lackey '10 Theo 83 Porcello '15 Ben

All the rest? 17-4? As you would say, "WOW!" Now, if you said, "after 2013," you'd have a strong case. 9 first place 1 second place 10 straight playoffs (11 counting 2013.) It's interesting to note they lost in the ALDS 5 of those 10 times, the ALCS 3 times, the WS twice and the one tainted win. That is better than our record, for sure, but from 2003 to 2013, I'll take our rings, playoffs and records. We know our record, but from 2003-2013, LA had this... 3 4th place 1 3rd place 3 2nd place 4 1st place 5 playoffs with 2 losses in NLDS and 3 in the NLCS

MLBTR reports... Here are the non-roster invitees the Sox added to the Spring Training roster: Pitchers Jorge Benitez, Cam Booser, Frank German and Helcris Olivarez, infielder Jamie Westbrook, outfielder Mark Contreras and infielder/outfielder Eddy Alvarez.

The one WS title by LAD was the 2020 season, so that should count as a half championship. LOL. Being a Dodger fan for the next 10 years looks way more inviting, but it's all speculation. As much as I meant to show how scarce or good years have become since 2013, out of the 11 top seasons, I listed, the playoff years, 4 have been in the last 8 years (2016, 2017, 2018, 2021.) One could also say we only have 1 in the last 5 years, which is terrible. I'm very happy with the last 21 years, but not the last 5. Would you take LA's (or anyone else's) last 21 years or ours?

I wonder how much this mega contract affects the trade value of some top players.

Agreed. Sale. Price. JD. Kimbrell. Nate. All seem better and more flashy than Story & Yoshida.

The "good times" are certainly becoming more spread out. In the last 21 years, here are some of the best teams- by record and playoff advancement, only: Red= after 2013 Group A 108-54 (WS win 4-1, 1st place) 2018 98-64 (WS win 4-0, the first in forevah, 2nd place) 2004 96-66 (WS win 4-0, 1st place) 2007 97-65 (WS win 4-2, 1st place) 2013 Group B 95-67 (2nd place, lost ALCS 4-3) 2003 95-67 (2nd place, lost ALCS 4-3) 2008 92-70 (2nd place, lost ALCS 4-2) 2021 Group C 93-69 (1st place, lost ALDS 3-1) 2017 93-69 (1st place, lost ALDS 3-0) 2016 95-67 (2nd place, lost ALDS 3-0) 2005 95-67 (2nd place, lost ALDS 3-0) 2009 Non Playoff Group: 90-72 (3rd place) 2011 89-73 (3rd place) 2010 86-76 (3rd place) 2006 84-78 (3rd place) 2019

Sounds familiar. At least Ben got a ring during the last time it happened.

Agreed, with more emphasis on disgruntled.

Other teams have passed us. JH stopped spending from the Sale, Bogey and Nate extensions ('18-'19 off season) to the Story signing in spring '22. That three year period was longer or "turtling" more than any stretch of his tenure in Boston. I would not call 2022 and 2023 an example of turtling. Our 2022 CB Tax budget was the third highest in Sox history and just $3M from #2. The 2023 budget was 4th highest, even higher than DD's first 2 years and by $17M and $30M! No, he has not gone all in, but he did go over the tax line once and came relatively close, last year. The Devers extension was signed, last year. That kicks in in 2024. That is no turtle. I'm not making excuses for JH, but he did begin spending more and more, starting with Story. He just hasn't kept up with about 5-10 teams that passed us. He may need to for us to ever get relevant, again. He's fallen behind the times. He may never try to get into the now, again. If he goes up to the first tax line ($237M), this year, it will be the third highest payroll, ever. If he goes to the second line ($257M), which he may decide to do, it would be the highest ever by about $13M. It might still not be enough. $256-257M might get us back into the top 4-6 in team budgets, but who knows, these days?

My point was made in relation to an ongoing conversation, whereby I made assumption that if we added 2 SP'ers via free agency, we would not necessarily have to trade a top 3 prospect, this winter. I have already said many times, I do not expect anything, this winter. I think the sham will continue. I'll believe it when I see it, and on and on. I hope we add 3 SP'ers, but I think the odds on that are zero to a half percent. I would not bet on us adding 2 quality SP'ers. I am NOT assuming we get two good SP'ers. I don't even expect Monty. Maybe we get Lugo and Lorenzen. That's about what I expect.