moonslav59

I would compare the Yoshida signing to Walker- not a $10M/1 deal. It could never be Kluber or Walker, but it could have been Yoshi or Walker (with or without Kluber.)

You are making it easy to hack into your accounts!

Yes, all your chosen things are fact. No context, at all is the refrain.

First, I want to say I am not a DD basher. I'm 100% happy with his tenure with the Sox. I do NOT think he "emptied the farm," although he did trade away over 20 young players that were once top 20 prospects. He chose very well, which ones to trade and which ones to keep. His trades and signings had a very high success rate. The 2018 team was a juggernaut. It's hard to imagine how quickly things can unravel, but they did. IMO, the methodologies used in his first 3 years we bound to have some long term consequences, but they were worth it. This whole thing has been debated for years, but certain aspects of the team vision and plans changed after 2018. This is something that seems clear to everyone. From the trade deadline in 2018 to DD's departure in 2019, the following things happened: 1. Kimbrell, Kelly and Pomeranz were not brought back, nor were they replaced. 2. Some players declined and not just guys like Nunez and Pearce, but also Sale, Nate and others. 3. While the budget increased from 2018 to 2019, the arb raises and extensions given to Sale, Bogey and Nate meant major spending increases without additional players added. 4. No major prospects were traded after the deadline in 2018, and one could argue Beeks (#6 on soxprospects.com) and Espinal (not in top 20) were not top prospects, either. This aspect continued under Bloom's full 4 year tenure. So, we go into the fall and winter of 2019 without DD and a new GM forced to adhere to a strict set of guideline- some not really brand new. Here was the budget handed to Bloom in the fall of 2019: 31 Price (soon to be included in the Betts trade as half cost) 22 JD 21 Porcello (FA to be and not replaced) 20 Betts (looking at a $29M arb and being traded w 1/2 Price.) 17 Eovaldi (first year of 4 year extension) 15 Sale (about to see extension kick this up to $25.6) 14 Pedroia (100% deadwood by then) 12 Bogey (about to see extension kick this up to $20M) 9 JBJ (with last arb pending) 8 Cashner (not re-signed 7 Moreland (brought back in '20, then traded at the deadline) 6 Pearce (not deserving of a return for '20) 4 ERod (about to miss the 2020 season) 4 Holt, Vaz 2 Leon Notable Arbs: Devers, Beni, Barnes, Workman, Hembree, Wright Notable Pre-arbs: J Taylor, Walden, Velazquez After trading Betts & Price and not replacing them or Porcello and others with anything more than Martin Perez and Jose Peraza, we then lost Sale and ERod for the entire 2020 season. To think the 2020 team was anywhere close to the level of the 2018 team was and still is a joke. No Betts, Price, Sale, ERod, Porcello, Nunez, Pearce and others. (Pedey was still on the budget, too.) We replaced all of this with Martin Perez, Jose Peraza, Kevin Pillar and a bunch or min wage longshot hopes, nearly 2 dozens of them over the 2020 season. Their total cost above min wage was less than $15M total. Can someone tell me how DD or any GM could have rescued that roster and created a successful team? I hear a lot of, "Okay, I don't count 2020 against Bloom," but what big change to that base was made for 2021? The return of a shell of Sale? The loss of a decent 2020 season by JBJ? ERod's nice return helped, but was not enough. Okay, we finally replace Porcello's contract 2 years later (Richards, Perez, Renfroe, Marwin,) but still not 1/2 Price and Betts. The success of 2021 can be viewed as surprising, but I think many viewed this as evidence that Bloom did inherit a team close to what the 2018 team. In reality, it was far from that team. I do think the budgets of 2022 and 2023 allowed for much better roster construction than what Bloom was able to do, although his 2022 moves look pretty decent on paper. I will not argue that someone else could have done better than Story, Yoshida and others. Better than Richards, Perez and Marwin in '21, too and certainly better than the Renfroe JBJ trade. No doubts, there. To me, the fact is the great run of 2016-2018 was well worth the sacrifice that was inevitable to follow. I think the rebuild took too long. The lack of keeping up with other top spenders was a factor, but we should have done better than 78 wins in '22 and '23. Again, I like the foundation Bloom left for the next guy. I'm hopeful we can create a more balanced approach that can keep us winning for longer than 3 year windows- something we have not really been able to do, since Theo, and even he never won rings beyond a 3 year stretch and had some down years scattered in between. (No 3 last places, though.) I'm hopeful the next guy can do it.

Every now and again the dreams come true. 4 times in 20 years is enough for me to keep dreaming. Hell, I was dreaming for 50 years before 2004, with no payback.

What worries me most about Bader is his .635 OPS from 2022 to 2023, and the fact he only had 657 PAs in those two seasons, combined. He's only 29, so maybe he can get back to the .784 OPS he had from 2020-2021 or even the .745 he had from 2018-2021. His major plus is the .824 career OPS vs LHPs, but that is the short-side platoon slit, and his defense doesn't quite make him a FT player, IMO. (.667 v RHPs) I would not pay him what he will get to be a platoon/defensive replacement CF'er. He does beat the crap out of Dugo's career .665 OPS vs LHPs, and he can play CF very well, but to me, that is not enough.

Nobody but you understands this? I've heard many say these same things multiple times. I'd say most of us realize it is a long season, and just slight variances can have a major impact over a 162 game season for a player and a team. Look at right now, some of us think we are 2-3 players from being a serious contender after back-to-back 78 win seasons. Isn't that proof that you are not alone?

While it may not be "easy" to add 2-3 top player to our roster, this winter, one near sure-fire method is to just bid more and more, until you win the auction. We absolutely have to choose correctly, but I'm not sure Yamamoto is a sure bet. I love his age and possibilities, but it could be a disaster signing. That is, however, true of any big signing. If we can trade some highly-regarded prospects for one top pitcher, the budget part will have gotten a lot easier and make outbidding others for 1-2 players we really want more likely. I know many think of this prospect or that prospect as "untouchable," and some don't want to trade any of our top 5-6 prospects, but to get a team-controlled younger pitchers with TOTR stuff, it will be costly. Trading for a guy who is already an ace, like Burnes would not really be a good idea, unless we can extend him at a .reasonable cost, and that is rarely a certainty. Let's say we trade 2-3 prospects for Burnes and sign Yamamoto. Extend Burnes. I'd still love to see us sign a 3rd SP'er- maybe Morton on a 1 yr deal or someone like Seth Lugo. (Maybe trade Dugo for a good LH RP) Sign Duvall and keep Urias for his last arb year. This probably has a 0.0001% chance of happening, but I think we can do it and stay under the second tax line, so why not? SP: Burnes, Yamamoto, Bello, Lugo, Pivetta/Sale LR: (Pivetta,) Houck, Whitlock, Crawford SR: Jansen, Martin, Winckowski, Schreiber C: Wong & McGuire 1B: Casas (Duvall) 2B: Urias & Reyes SS: Story 3B: Devers LF: Duran & Refsnyder (Yoshida) CF: Rafaela & Abreu RF: Duvall (Abreu) DH: Yoshida Others on the 40: SP: Gambrell, Drohan, Perales (Hageman or Walter?) RP: Bernardino, Kelly, Murphy, Robertson (Mata or Mills?) C: Scott 1B: (Dalbec?) 2B/DH: EValdez SS: DHam (OF: Rosier not on 40)

There are so few good OF'ers and RHBs on the market, it might take 3 years to get Duvall.

I agree, except for thinking "everyone ignores or forget" the season is long.

Yes, that is what I said after the one sentence you copied of mine. I do think DD might have been able to convince JH to rob Peter to pay Paul. Bloom had no such option to even try. This is why I blame Bloom less than DD, but yes, if JH was firm on not paying Betts, then the blame is 100% JH, 0% DD and 0% Bloom.

. True, especially for the types of players DD traded for, but guys like Sale were a bargain. Bloom did end up spending some money in 2020, but just a fraction of what he lost in Betts, 1/2 Price, Porcello and others. Best case scenario, maybe he trades Price, Groome and Dalbec for nothing but full salary relief. He does not replace Porcello. He does not extend Sale. He keeps Betts for his arb year, but then what? I just can't see any way to make it work, unless we raise the budgets of 2020, 2021 and maybe even 2022-2023. I don't think any GM could have built a winner under those circumstances, at least until 2022. The 2021 season, notwithstanding, seems like a miracle, now.

And, that trade off in extremes also lead to what foundations each GM left for the next one.

I do think DD had a better chance at extending Betts than Bloom did. He also spent a ton on Sale, Bogey, Nate and JD as a FA, instead of Betts, but to me, I think JH and the top guys made the call on not giving Betts "what it would take."

Certainly none like the higher ranked ones he had already traded, but he did not trade Chavis, Groome, Casas, Houck, Duran, DHern or Dalbec. It's hard to know, if he asked to do so, and was told not to, or their trade value, at the time, was so low, he could not find a return worth the effort.

No. Betts had a final arb year for 2020. He has to pay him in 2020, if he doesn't trade him. Paying him $29M means cutting $29M, elsewhere, plus the $16M for half-Price. The budget cut would have been for 2021 and beyond, but we'd still be paying full Price for David.

I agree, Bloom failed. How could any GM have gotten the 2020 budget down to what it was and built a winner for 2021? The second part is about trading prospects. I don't think I'm wrong to think it became an organizational philosophy not to trade any for almost 5 years. I don't think Bloom insisted on this. My evidence is that even DD made no significant prospect trades in his last 1.5 seasons with the Sox. That guideline or mandate, or whatever you want to call it, came from above. Maybe DD or any other GM would have done better than Bloom, but I firmly disagree that "Bloom made more of the circumstances" than he was handed, but for those who feel he was the one who chose to trade Betts and cut the budget and hoard all the highly ranked prospects, I can see how you view it that way.

In theory, he he kept Betts, he'd still have had to cut the budget for 2020, somehow.

Agreed, and the funny thing is, I view the winter before 2021 as worse choices made than prior to 2022 and 2023. One major difference was at the deadlines (and later waiver additions): 2021: Added Schwarber, Robles, Rios, Davis, Shaw and Iggy. Almost all made significant contributions. 2022: Traded Vaz and others for mostly future assets like Abreu, EValdez and Rosier while whiffing on Pham & Hosmer. McGuire was one minor plus. 2023: Added Urias, although I'm not sure adding Verlander and others would have turned us into a playoff team

I think admitting we are two solid starting pitchers away from being a pretty solid playoff contenders would be admitting Bloom got some things right, along the way to his dismissal. Bell is right in saying adding two studs is not easy, even with enough money and tradeable prospects to add 3-4. You have to pick the right ones. We can't pick the David Prices, Pablitoe's and HRam's like the past. We need to be precise on our choices, which is against the odds, unless you add 4, hoing 2-3 work for a couple -three years. We may be in the minority, Randy, but I am excited about the foundation we have going forward. Does Baltimore and Atlanta have better foundations? Hell, yes, but we are headed in the right direction, and now need to pivot towards making major acquisitions that work well. I fully understand the idea that Bloom was not going to be the guy to trust doing that, and it's not about injuries to Story or a slow start by Yoshia. Getting the "right guy" takes boldness and decisiveness. The next GM better be both.

Do you think DD would have been allowed to trade Mayer, Rafaela, Duran, Bello, Casas or others had he stayed around? Remember, he traded no major prospects after the 2018 deadline, and that was likely going to continue. In dreamland, we can envision he extended Betts and not Sale, had more to spend, and chose wisely on what overrated prospects to trade (like he did before.) He could have traded Chavis, Mata and Groome, when their stock was highest. Later, he might have traded Dalbec, DHern and Jimenez. I seriously doubt DD would have wanted to be here under the circumstances Bloom faced. Change the circumstances for DD, then we should for Bloom, too. IMO, keeping DD around would have only worked, if the parameters changed, too.

I don’t get your fixation on the underdog thing. Did anyone think we were favorites at any point since day one in Bloom’s term? The 2020 team was a mess and a major underdog.

He rebuilt the Tigers with money and by trading prospects. The parameters would have had to have changed, but then you have to think how Bloommight have done had he spent millions more and traded Mayer, Duran and others.

I would not sign either with the idea of a platoon. I would sign either to play FT, however.

Like as a platoon and defensive replacement?