Maxbialystock

I think you guys are ignoring that, when Barnes came out and struck out the only batter he faced, the score was 4-2 and men were on 1st and 2d. The game at that point was not out of control. Indeed, Farrell then had the option of keeping Barnes in or bringing in Abad to face Cano. Most would agree Abad was the better choice and in fact Abad got 2 strikes on him before missing his target and putting one in the center of the zone (or so I've read). The night before, I think it is worth noting, Farrell had a very similar situation in the 7th inning when ERod had been cruising. He got the first out on a grounder, then have up a single to Cano and a walk to Cruz. Then a visit to the mound. Lee then doubled, scoring Cano and moving Cruz to 3B. ERod out, Ross in, and Ross hits the first guy to load the bases. Then, however, he struck out the next two guys to end the inning with the Sox down 1-0. Later Hill homers in the 8th and Betts in the 9th to win. No outcry, none, on that game thread about how slow to react Farrell was, about how he should have had at least two guys warming up when ERod went out to pitch the 7th, about how the pitching coach or Farrell himself should have run out to the mound immediately after the double by Cano, especially in a 0-0 tie game. And why was there no outcry Monday night? Because the Sox won the game. Because Ross got out there in time to stop the bleeding and, after hitting a guy, struck two out. Last night Barnes did his job, but Abed did not. To me Farrell did his job too--both nights. But one night the bullpen excelled (in their own way) and the other night the bullpen did not.

Two initial points: 1) I didn't stay up and watch the end last night; 2) reading this thread, I was pretty convinced Farrell really did blow it this time. Then I looked at the summary of the 8th inning, which I recap for one and all: Zunino homers. Martin singles on a soft fly ball to center (note word "soft"). Sardinas singles on a sharp ground ball to right (note words ground ball). Coaching visit to mound (after 3 batters in the 8th). Heredia singles on soft line drive to right, Martin scores, Sardinas to 2B. Score now 4-2 Sox, no one out. Coaching visit--Barnes in for Price. Barnes strikes Smith out. Another coaching visit, Abad replaces Barnes. Cano homers for 3 runs, Seattle now up, 5-4. Abad gets next two out on fly to CF and grounder to 1B. In the 9th, Bradley K's, Shaw walks, and Leon and Benintendi (the anointed one) strike out. From the above I think Farrell's decisions were very defensible. He sent Price out for the 8th because of the 89 pitches and a good track record in 8th innings, which is the same reason for not warming up the bullpen right away. Moreover, Tazawa and Kimbrel. presumably his two best, pitched the night before. But my real point is that Barnes went into the game with the score 4-2 and immediately struck the batter out. At that point Farrell and the bullpen had re-established control of the game. All was far from lost at that point even though no one had warmed up before the bottom of the 8th began. I might also note that, except for the dinger, Price was not hit hard in the 8th--soft fly, grounder, and soft liner. If there was a mistake, it was bringing Abad in for Barnes, but Barnes would have been a righty facing one of the best lefty hitters in the AL, Cano, and Abad, a lefty, was not only available but apparently had a good record against Cano. He even got 2 strikes on him. But Abad threw a fat pitch to one of the best hitters in the game--kind of like Ortiz. When I go back and look at the complaints in the thread about Farrell's rank stupidity, no one mentions that Barnes actually got into the game with the score 4-2, men on first and second, and struck out the first batter he faced. To me that's a pretty big omission.

Your view of Betts is mostly in the eye of the beholder. In fact, it was the Pedroia dinger in the 9th that drove in the 3 runs. Betts single was good and kept the rally alive, but Pedroia was the man. For most of this season, in case you haven't noticed, the man has been the old fart Ortiz. That said, anyone who isn't rooting for and loving what Betts does is blind. He is having a great year and doing it in a tough spot, leadoff, where he is 2d on the team in rbi's and 1st in runs scored. Plus he plays that tough RF position. I would never question anyone who picked Betts as the team MVP.

If by terrible, you mean not in the right location, I agree. But I like those stats, which I have not seen before.

Maybe I wasn't watching attentively enough, but I thought ERod threw a whole lot of fastballs, sometimes mixing in with sliders, but sliders that were mostly outside of the strike zone. Before the game he mentioned he was really happy with his changeup, but in the game he threw very few, or so it seemed to me. I agree with the view that the results were fantastic--until the 7th, the Mariners couldn't hit him.

A pretty amazing game for the 2d game in a row. While Kimbrel's curve may be a pain to catch, it is also borderline unhittable whereas his fastball is not. Before the knee injury he threw mostly fastballs, but last night was mostly curve balls. In these two close games the winning home runs were hit by the top of the order. Sox and Jays now 1 game back of the Orioles, but the wild card contenders are accumulating--the Astros and Tigers, anyway. Only two teams in the AL, Oakland and Minnesota, have given up more runs than the Sox. Last night I thought Farrell handled the bullpen about as well as it can be done. That is, he took ERod out at the penultimate moment before the deluge, kept Ross in even after the HBP that loaded the bases, and stuck with Tazawa, despite issues, for the 8th. Leon finally figured out it's OK--indeed, a good idea--to actually move your feet when a curve is going in the dirt to your right.

After yesterday's spectacular 9th inning following tough losses to the Angels and a mediocre home stand, it's hard to predict anything. It's the best of times and the worst of times. Every one of our starters can deliver a solid game--or not. And lately the hitting is the same way.

Could not agree more, and I started this thread.

I agree he's the one guy, etc--present tense. But you better believe there have been seasons--or parts of seasons--in Boston when he was not the best choice. As for right now, he leads the AL in OPS, plus he has a ton of hitting experience, so of course he is everyone's first choice. To me a hitter is clutch when he consistently over-performs in clutch situations. Thus Pedroia's dinger yesterday was almost beyond clutch because he had already struck out 3 times and he doesn't have the big OPS like Ortiz and he doesn't drive in a lot of runs and he has half as many dingers as Ortiz.

Pretty convincing. I definitely think veterans can help, but it depends on the veterans. To me Pedroia is a better leader than Ortiz because he also plays a position in the field. He missed the 2004, but not the 2007 and 2013 WS, plus he has a pretty good track record when he is healthy. I agree with you that it's an intangible. I have seen no evidence that clutch isn't real, but I've seen nothing that says it is real. I do think hitters with talent and experience are more likely to hit in clutch situations simply because they are more likely to hit period. So much depends on what the pitcher is throwing.

May I add that I'm pretty sure both dingers were on sliders, which kind of undercuts my thesis that these guys can't hit breaking balls.

I not only had no premonition, I was sure this game was over going into the 9th. Yes, I had a little hope Betts might get a hit, but I sure as hell didn't think Pedroia we hit one over the center field fence.

What an amazing freaking game. The Sox were dead, dead, dead. But, as it turns out, they were only mostly dead. Just an incredible 9th inning comeback.

First four hitters have 1 single by Betts and 9 K's and 12 men left on base. And the sadder thing is that this weak-hitting trend started back in Boston.

This is not the first game this has happened, but in this one it is very clear that our guys have trouble with breaking balls.

My realistic view of the Sox right now, July 30, is that now is not the time to make a big trade to improve the rotation as was done o/a August 1, 2013. Why? Because the rotation right now is not that bad: Porcello and Price are both pretty solid; Pomeranz just might be as good as indicated at San Diego this year; Wright can be very good when his knuckler is working; ERod was good last year and could be that way again this year. But also because this is a pretty talented lineup which, however, lacks experience. I think the Sox can get to the playoffs as currently configured--and assuming the bullpen DL's return in good order--but maybe lacks the maturity to win in the postseason. The Angels (Sciosia, actually) showed us how to deal with Ortiz in game 1 Thursday night--when in doubt, walk him. Detroit should have done that in the ALCS in 2013, and you can bet it will happen this postseason. Everyone else in the lineup is up and own like a yo-yo. Collectively, they have scored a lot of runs and will score a lot more, but collectively they right now are vulnerable to good pitching, not just great pitching. And right now I would define good pitching as anyone with good breaking balls (curve, slider, changeup, knuckle curve, whatever) that is in or close to the strike zone. Even Linecum, whose ERA 8.49 and who walked 6 guys in 5 innings last night, did OK (4 runs in 5 innings)--because he threw a whole lot of breaking balls. In other words, my advice to Dombrowski is to limit himself to maybe getting another good bullpen arm, period, and let this team work its way through the rest of the season, whatever happens. And by all means don't trade away any more of our top prospects. Enough is enough.

Build a bench with depth is such a joke. You sound like a football coach. The simple fact is that most MLB teams have 4 on the bench to back up the 9 regulars in the lineup and one of them is the spare catcher. Indeed all 4 of them are like spares for just in case. Sometimes, as the Sox did earlier in LF, they will platoon, but by and large they are spares, not carefully chosen guys to add, in your words, defensive depth. Indeed, it is rare when the Sox recruit or trade for any position player primarily because of their defensive ability. Bradley, a very good defensive CF and better defensively the day he got here than Ellsbury, was up and down between Pawtucket and Boston like a yo-yo because he couldn't hit. Most would agree Iglesias is a better defensive SS than Bogaerts, but there was no hesitation in trading him to get Peavy in 2013. The list of similar decisions is endless. HanRam and Shaw play everyday because they can hit, and right now HanRam's July OPS is .989 vs. Hill's .432. Plus HanRam's only committed 4 errors all season and he started out as a SS, which demands a good arm. And that BS about the footwork is different doesn't apply to throwing home--it's exactly the same footwork at SS as it is at 1B. He just rushed it, he says, because he wanted the GIDP, but also because Trout is fast and was going home with the crack of the bat. I also don't buy the notion that Hill is worlds better at 3B than Shaw, not when Shaw's DWAR is 4th best among AL thirdbasemen.

Gotta like Youk's optimism, which I think is well-founded. Kimmi was the first I think to suggest the rotation just might be OK with the current five, who I rank in this order: Porcello, Price, Wright, Pomeranz, and ERod. Interesting that Farrell has said Wright doesn't get a pass when the weather is hot and humid. Ditto that he won't defensive sub for HanRam in late and close games.

I'm maddest at HanRam, I guess, but also at Ziegler for loading up the bases. Indeed, the only out Ziegler got in the 9th was Perez failing to bunt and striking out on a very low pitch (thereby avoiding a GIDP). But let's not forget the lineup which scored a grand total of 1 run--a sac fly by Betts to score Leon from 3d--against Weaver, whose fastball tops out at 84 mph and whose ERA this year is 5.14, including last night's 5.2 innings and 1 earned run. I'm also mad that I couldn't get to sleep and watched the game to the bitter end. Kimmi's right that the rotation could be coming around even though none of the three lefties has a reliable changeup (I mean game in and game out). But what keeps sticking in my craw is that the hitting can disappear so quickly and not just against aces, but against anyone with a good mix of pitches and decent control. Let's not forget that the Angels bullpen went 3.1 innings and gave up 0 runs. Against their closer Bedrosian in the 9th (we were up 1-0), Ortiz popped to 3b and HanRam and JBJ both struck out swinging--our 4, 5, and 6 hitters. Right now this team is doing a good job of finding ways to lose, especially close games, which Kimmi has mentioned regularly. However, Kimmi says that's actually the best way to lose because it means your close and not getting blown away. I started the Referendum on Farrell and have mostly defended him on specific decisions, but I always consider managers to be accountable for overall wins and losses. And right now, as was true a year ago, it's hard to keep faith with this manager. This team seems to be playing below its potential.

Well, we can always blame Farrell for not pinch-hitting for Ortiz or for sending Buchholz in to pitch in a crucial game and inning. Oh, wait. Ortiz is our best hitter, and Buchholz had a clean inning. Ziegler? 9th inning, tie game, must win, and he is the closer for now--gotta send him in. Seriously, I almost always defend specific moves by managers, but do hold them accountable for overall team performance and specifically the W-L record. And even there I think Dombrowski has some fingerprints on this team and this season.

He has a fastball (84-86 mph) and a big curve, but he can't hit the corners with them. Moreover, when the knuckler is missing, the opposing hitters, without exception, will sit on the fast ball, which only works when the knuckler is working.

Just a pathetic game. Yes, the lineup finally tied the game at 3-3, but then Ziegler gave up the dinger in the 9th and of course we had no answer. That's 4-5 on a key homestand that included 4 against the woebegone Twins, who split with the Sox. All 5 losses were close--1 or 2 runs. Right now, this is not a clutch team--more like a choke team. I think over time the team has come to rely too much on Ortiz for the big hits. Last night he hit that huge 3 run dinger, but was otherwise hitless when we needed a monster game from him. The Tigers, on the other hand, always seemed to be to get the key hit, the key rbi when they needed it. In retrospect, the great throw by Tigers CF Collins was pretty darn big. Bradley has a stronger arm, but is too often off target.

This team needs to get the hell of Boston and see if they can find some character on the road. I do not exempt Farrell even though he doesn't throw any pitches or swing at any.

OK, that tears it. Holt on 1st, no outs in the 6th, and Betts gets a fat pitch, a fast ball in the geometric center of the strike zone, and hits down on it to ensure a grounder and easy gidp. What is going on with these guys?

Fulmer has 3 pitches--fast ball, slider, and occasional changeup, but he's throwing 75% strikes and challenging our hitters, who are almost supine.