Maxbialystock

And my point was and is that the critics on the game thread were wrong. Smith stayed in and got 3 outs--good move by the manager. Cora was right, the boobirds were wrong--including you if you say Smith should have been pulled after the dinger.

Actually, that's a pretty good observation. I myself rarely if ever say, "wow. Cora or Farrell or Francona really did a great job in that game." I got my dander up chiefly because of the thread title. Plus, as you know, I like to argue.

Sorry, but I'm not buying the thesis that a 6-1 record against the Rays and Marlins should be heavily discounted if not completely ignored. Last year the two best AL records, Guardians and Astros, won at 63% and 62% clips. The rock bottom Tigers won 40% of their games. Statistically, that means that in a 7 game series with the Guardians and then the Astros, the Tigers win 3. So, while I am confident that Sox can't keep up a 6-1 pace, I think the good start is bonafide. As Cora has already said--thinking no doubt of the weak hitting--this team will get better.

Napoleon once said he wanted generals/marshalls who were lucky more than he wanted them to be smart. Managers are hired to be fired, and to me the only valid criteria for evaluating them are: 1) the team's won-lost record; 2) whether that won-lost record was above or below expectations. So far it is unarguable that Cora has done well on both counts. Of course, it's still early, and there is no way I or anyone can say the season will end as well as it has begun. As for yesterday, here's how I think he contributed-- 1. He kept his lineup of Mookie, Beni, HanRam, JD, Bogaerts, Devers, Nunez, JBJ, and Vazquez. After languishing for 8 innings, they came alive against the Ray bullpen. 2. He kept Price in for 7 innings, which to me was exactly right. 3. He plugged in Velazquez for 1 good inning (the 9th, the one in which we tied the game) and rookie Poyner for 2 (and the win). He also used his $13M closer, who for the 3d time in a row had 2 or 3 baserunners when he finally got his 3d out. Heck, I can't even fault him for using Smith because Carson is supposed to be able to pitch a good 8th: his career ERA is 2.29. Plus he left him in after the 2 run dinger, and he got 3 outs. 4. He plugged in Swihart to pinch run for JD after his single in the 11th. if Nunez singled, Swihart has a better chance to score than JD. Plus Swihart so far has the same OPS as JD in case he has to hit later.

Actually, I'm not. A ton of people have commented on how dumb Cora was to start JD in RF in the final game in Miami, a game the Sox won. What do you want to bet the same things were said after Carson Smith gave up that 2 run dinger yesterday in the 8th? What was Cora thinking? Couldn't he even remember what Smith did in the 8th of game 1 when Denard got that bases clearing triple?

Fair enough. However, please feel free to quote yourself in any thread thus far in which you say Cora did something good. Maybe something like, "wow. The Sox can't hit spit but they are 6-1 and leading the AL East by 2 games. Cora seems to know what he is doing in close games, of which there have been a lot." What I'm getting at is the normal catch 22 for Sox managers. If the bullpen does well, it's because they pitched well. If they don't, it's the manager's fault. You would not be the first to think that way.

Absolutely amazing game, during which I was convinced the cause was hopeless, especially when the Rays went up by 2 on the dinger off Smith. I argued that Smith's gopher ball was merciful because it ended a game that was clearly hopeless. Then the chairman of our board came in to chat, and I showed him the game on my computer screen--and, like magic, the Sox scored 2. Really tough on Price who had another great start. But he has to know what we know--he made a huge difference without getting a win. This is now twice that Carson has give up an huge extra base hit that put us in a hole in the 8th inning.

Absolutely right. The hitters need to hit and clearly are not.

Release Swihart? He absolutely is not the problem.

Absolutely true. Hard to blame the pitching staff--including the bullpen--when the hitting is this bad. Whoops, there goes two more rubber tree plants--JBJ and Vazquez just struck out to end the 8th. I say again, this positively, absolutely is not on the pitching. it's on a bunch of candy asses who can't hit.

Pointless to blame Smith or the bullpen when the hitting is so abysmal. Indeed, that gopher pitch to Duffy was an act of mercy and put this obviously unwinnable game out of its misery. Our one big hit has been a wind-aided triple that could have been an error. And it was a lead off triple which went nowhere because--surprise,surprise--we not only can't hit, we can't even score a guy from 3b with one or no outs. Pathetic.

I think I have this right. the guys from Tampa can handle the cold. The guys from Boston can't.

Look, this is only the 3d inning of the 7th game, but I have to say the hitting this year is so pathetic--underscored by a leadoff triple and three straight batters who can't bring him home.

OK. That's officially two who don't remember seeing Price's knuckle curve before today.

Beni's CS doesn't worry me that much because our hitting is so weak. So why not gamble?

Is that knuckle curve by Price new?

Not a bad idea.

Good stuff. I have always thought Kelly was a MLB pitcher, but one to be used with caution. To me the best relievers have good breaking stuff they can control (keep it low in the zone). Kimbrel is not Kimbrel when he can't get strikes with that breaking ball. I think Kelly's fastball is fine, but not when the batter knows that's what's coming. In the infamous 8th in game 1, Kelly walked the first guy, K'd the second, and gave up a double on a slider in the geometric center of the zone to the third better. Thereafter, he relied too much on his fastball and hitting corners with it. I think both those walks were on 3-2 counts.

You always come up with cool stats. Yes, Kimbrel's .120 OPS against number in the 9th is fantastic. But I noticed it was 4 1/2 times that in the 8th inning. To me that number is a cautionary note for those who want to bring Kimbrel in early to get maybe a 2 inning save.

Interesting discussion, especially when there is a similar one ongoing about managerial decisions. In the two threads I see an interesting dichotomy. On this one moonslav has pointed out that, as barely adequate as this bullpen may or may not be, they have actually been pretty darn good over 6 games and 21 (I thought it was 22) innings if you just throw out the 8th inning of game 1. Still the consensus here seems to be that this bullpen needs to get better. Even Kimbrel had two baserunners in each of two of this three one-inning stints. Over on the other thread, no mention of course of the bullpen and hardly any mention of the 5-1 record. Instead the focus is on that 8th inning of game one, now topped by not starting Betts in RF last night. Cora, it seems, may not be clueless, but sometimes seems to be. How could anyone in his right mind leave Kelly in or not start Betts? Me, I think Cora has done a terrific job managing this pitching staff through the first six games, especially when only one starter went 7 innings, and the other five (Sale twice) went 6 or 5 innings. That reality required Cora to make a whole lot of pitching decisions, and in my view most of them turned out to be pretty darn good, especially in view of the apparent consensus on this thread that this bullpen ain't quite all it can be. I am especially fascinated by the discussion on Kelly, the lead perp in game 1, inning 8. No one here seems to think he's much good, but Cora used him to close a 2-1 game--and it worked. That's the game Velazquez started and went 5.2, followed by Walden's semi-miraculous (he was hit hard--line drive outs) 1.1 innings, Poyner's .1, Barnes's .2, and Kelly's 1 inning. To me that was brilliant managing, but also completely unacknowledged. Over on the other thread there is nary a peep or comment that just maybe Cora knows what he is doing with his pitchers, who only have the best ERA (2.20) in MLB despite the adequate bullpen and being without Pomeranz, ERod, Wright, Thornburg, et al

Tough crowd. When the Sox lose, it's because of Cora. When they win, it's in spite of him. Me, I give a lot of leeway to a new guy whose team has gone 5-1 on their first road trip.

One would think weak, but the Rays have been tough on us at the Trop, and Miami had just split 4 games with the Cubs in Chicago. Plus all 6 games were on the road. Yankees, I agree, are going to be tough, but that just gives us something to look forward to. Like every year I can remember.

I don't think your thesis holds up too well when the evidence so far is that Cora has been terrific with the bullpen,which has now pitched 23 innings in 6 games, and, indeed, that Smith and Kelly, including a save by Kelly in a 1 run game, have both pitched well since the eighth inning of game 1. I just don't think the same guy can be a blithering idiot in one game and pretty darn good in five other games. You appear to be saying, "of course he can." We get out of that infamous 8th with a 4-2 lead if Smith (not Kelly) gets Denard out instead of giving up that bases clearly triple. Since Denard, Smith has been pretty good. Our stupendous closer, on the other hand, has pitched three innings and had 2 baserunners in two of those innings. Cora to me has done a terrific job getting the right arms into games at the right times.

No Betts and no game tomorrow. Hmmm

You could be right, but in 2016 he put up some pretty good numbers.