Maxbialystock

To me it's stunning and a huge injustice that Bogie was a complete also-ran in the ASG voting. He is easily the most valuable SS in the American League on hitting alone. He does not have great range, but has proven to be very consistent and certainly dedicated to being a solid defensive player. He has the highest WAR among AL shortstops. How important is WAR? Recently (5 years? more?), MVP voting by I think sportswriters has been heavily influenced by WAR ratings. Kimmi and jacksonianmarch have touched on an interesting phenomenon. More and more fans are beginning to think the ASG only endangers the best players. I disagree if only because the ASG is what creates that much-needed break in a very long and increasingly hot MLB season. Plus I think these days you can get quality baseball from ASG players without their risking injury. MLB went to fan voting to generate fan enthusiasm, but I think that has run its course. As a minimum, the fan vote should count less and players/coaches/managers vote count at least half.

I missed most of last night's game because of family arriving for the 4th, but did listen to the early part when the Sox took the lead. I agree the loss is dismaying, that no way the Sox will catch the Yankees, and that, as bad as the bullpen can be, we are seeing other problems--the rotation is way too inconsistent, and Betts and JDM, both of whom are at the top of the lineup, are well down from last year. Last year Mookie's OPS with men in scoring position was over 1.200. This year it's under .800. And we saw that last night. I would be reluctant to "blow up" this team, but also recognize that the payroll will need to be trimmed, if not this year, certainly next year. No way can DD keep everyone. DD's biggest moves have been to spend lavishly on starting pitchers. That worked last year even though Pomeranz bombed and Porcello wasn't worth his $21M. But this year Sale ($15M), Price ($30M), Porcello ($21M), Eovaldi ($17M), and ERod ($5M) have collectively not earned their pay. Their combined WAR is 5.3, which translates to $16.6M per WAR of 1.

I live near DC, where they do pretty good fireworks. I read somewhere there will be tanks too--fortunately, just a static display. US Army tankers have an expression: we don't lend nothin, least of all dignity, to anything. We just tear hell out of everything. I watched the first seven Sox runs and Price get out of the 2d (bases loaded), and then went to bed awhile later. Guys are a-swingin them bats. Sale tonight. If he goes 6 or more and gives up 2 or less, maybe we can see London as an anomaly--except for the bullpen. Not good last night. I expected Wright to make an immediate difference.

Yea, verily, it is written: when the Sox win, there ain't much to talk about. Talksox lights up when the Sox lose.

"An angel will fall from the sky. An angel will fall from the sky." Little known movie quote from Tony Shalhoub.

You are so completely off base it boggles the mind. Try these hard facts on for size-- ERod has pitched worse, ERA 4.79, in 2019 than in 2018, ERA 3.82. But he pitched 15 innings in ST this year vs. 0 last year. Thus: more ST innings = higher ERA. Price has pitched better, ERA 3.36, in 2019 than in 2018, ERA 3.58, and pitched 6.2 innings in ST this year vs. 12 last year. Thus, fewer ST innings = lower ERA. Porcello does fit your theory, sort of. He pitched 16 innings last year in ST and 12 this year, and his ERA worsened from 4.28 to 5.07. But to me it is downright silly to claim that those 4 additional innings in ST would have made all the difference. And it is absolutely laughable that to say it took the entire month of April for Porcello to recover from not pitching those 4 stinking innings. Sale, like Price, also pitched 6 fewer innings in ST this year than last, 9 this year vs. 15.1 last year. And, yes, his ERA has shot up from 2.11 to 3.82. But, again, I find it laughable that you truly believe that 6 stinking innings required the entire month of April for Sale to recover, which he really has not done to this day. Sale has a bigger problem than missing those 6 innings, and a blind man can see it. About Sale I might add that he ran out of gas from August onward the past two seasons, so the notion of going light in ST this year was not as stupid as you claim it to be.

You really do like to start threads, don't you? Justifiably, it seems. I happen to think the reasoning behind putting Eovaldi in the bullpen is pretty sound--gets him back sooner, helps a team subset that needs help, builds on his bullpen experience last postseason, and even helps to prepare him to start later in the season.

At the end of Casablanca, Bogart says to Ingrid Bergman, "we'll always have Paris." So too the Yankees and their fans--they'll always have London.

Agree completely. One can argue that Shawaryn had no business going 2 innings and giving up 8 runs on Saturday, but yesterday Brewer was the right guy for the 6th and Walden for the 7th and maybe even Barnes for the 8th. But the latter two were killed in the 7th. That cannot be on Cora. We all like to gripe about Porcello, but we have also seen him pitch well. Saturday he gave up 6 runs while getting just one out on a line drive hit to JBJ. That just might have been Porcello's worst outing in a Red Sox uniform. Then Tanaka does the exact same thing in the bottom of the 1st--gives up 6 runs while getting 2 outs. And Tanaka is basically the Yankees ace this year. My point is that for the most part that ballpark in London was not pitcher-friendly, and ERod just might have bragging rights (among the Sox rotation) for the rest of the year.

A lot of talk on this thread right after the Yankees lineup literally decimated the Sox bullpen in two games in London. That's fair. But last weekend had/has absolutely nothing to do with the requirement--or not--of a great closer because the Sox did not need a closer in either game. In fact, I would caution one and all to play down if not completely ignore last weekend because both teams scored a ton of runs with scores of 17-13 and 12-8. For those insisting on a better bullpen, maybe one like the Yankees have, consider the following. Chapman, Britton, and Ottavino are paid a total of $39M, so reliable, shut down bullpens don't come cheap. The Yankees can afford to do that because they, unlike the Sox, are not paying a king's ransom for their rotation. I am not, repeat not, the smart guy on this thread because I said all season long this bullpen was basically "good enough." Now I'm having second thoughts. I will add however, that letting Kelly and Kimbrel be "stolen" was not that dumb because Kelly has not pitched well for the Dodgers and Kimbrel was asking too much for a closer who rarely pitched in tough situations other than those he created.

Pretty much agree the Yankees have a great bullpen and just maybe--now--the best lineup in MLB. So they get the AL East and a good shot at the WS, and we do not. Our hitting this year is not as good--especially Mookie and JDM--as last year, but it's still pretty good because Bogie and Devers and JBJ and Vazquez are better than last year. But even I have to admit the bullpen is problematical. For those of you who wish we had Kimbrel back, a simple rejoinder: he would not have pitched in either game in London because the Sox never got the lead back (or even a tie) after the Yankees forged ahead. And the rotation is also problematical if only because JH is spending $88M on them this year and they are all, Price and Sale included, unreliable.

I’ve defended the bullpen relentlessly, but no more, although I do wonder if this stadium isn’t a factor. Yesterday the Yankees gave up 13 runs and today 8. Tanaka their ace gave up 6 in the 1st inning.

A good practical view, but I would go one step further and argue that the highest paid players in MLB are by and large overpaid with of course a few notable exceptions like Trout. With Sale still at his "bargain" rate of $15M, the Sox are still paying $88M for an--there is no other word for it--unreliable rotation (Sale, Price, ERod, Porcello, and Eovaldi). Last year JDM was a bargain--this year not so much. Mookie at $20M was surely a bargain this year, but lately not so much. He sure as heck doesn't look like a $30M/year man. Bogaerts new deal, basically $20M/year with some options, makes a whole lot more sense than paying Mookie $30M/year. I think Chavis will continue to improve his hitting, so he's an infield keeper at 1b, 2b, or 3b. Devers, obviously. I would keep JBJ if his price is right and he keeps hitting. Same for Beni if his hitting improves. I would probably keep JDM at $23.5M if he doesn't bolt. I would keep Leon and try to get him to lose a little weight. I think he is better defensively than Vazquez even though the best statistical thinking says that CERA is hokum. The Sox have won all 11 of the last 11 games in which Vazquez did not play. Of course, reality says my version is pie in the sky because of all those existing contracts.

Agree on the first two, but not the 3d. The Sox won everything last with Kinsler mostly and Holt/Nunez sometimes and no Pedey to speak of. The Sox let Kinsler be "taken" in hopes of Pedey returned, but that worked perfectly when Chavis showed up with his hot bat and adequate defense, which was better than Nunez's--he of the bad glove. That still left Moreland, who started hot this year, and Pearce to play 1b, which should have been plenty. As for Pearce, he was great last year as Moreland's backup, especially in the postseason, so why not bring him back for another year?

It's already been said, but is maybe worth repeating. Leaving Shawaryn in to give up 8 runs was no doubt a calculation that, after the first two or so--giving the Yankees both a 4 run or so lead and the strong impression of having red hot bats, the game was unwinnable, especially when the Yankees have such a great bullpen. It turned out that leaving Shawaryn in was the one move that did in fact make the game unwinnable and it still required Cora to use four more bullpen arms in a loss. As bad as Shawaryn was yesterday, he was still better than Porcello, who got 1 measly out, a hard hit liner to CF, and gave up 6 runs. Shawaryn got 4 outs while giving up 8 runs. The next 4 Sox relievers went 4.2 innings, giving up 1 run. I continue to believe that the Sox real problem is with the high-priced rotation. Sale, Price, Eovaldi, ERod, and Porcello are currently being paid $88M--and this is Sale's last "bargain" year at $15M. None of them can be considered reliable, and ERod and Porcello, with ERA's slightly below and above 5.00, are especially unreliable. Just a personal opinion, based on my memory of what made Sand Koufax so great, is that none of our starters has a pitch that breaks sharply downward. Sale, Price, and ERod all depend on fastballs primarily, but will mix in changeups and sliders, which I think break more side to side than up and down. Same for the cut fastballs. Roger Clemens cheated, but he also developed a splitter late in his career which extended it (along with the steroids or whatever).

Exactly. Before going to 2 wild card teams in each league, the 1 wild card team had as good a chance to go all the way as the other 3 (division winners), especially in the AL. The problem with that scheme is that the first wild card team often has a better, even a significantly better W-L record than 1 or more Division winners. Thus the 1 wild card format usually provided the most competitive postseason. I'm not saying that because of the Sox situation this year because right now, while I think the Sox have a good shot at the postseason, I don't see them beating the Yankees or Astros in the ALDS, even without having a play-in game.

Agree however that Cora blew it when he left shawaryn in. No excuse for that.

Isn’t Devers the one with a hamstring problem?

No. Porcello was/is the problem. So is the rotation.

That last pitch was a better strike than the one called on Mookie. Yankees getting the calls.

Nothing quite like blaming the bullpen after Porcello gets 1 out and gives 6 up. Bullpen has struggled, but the biggest problem is with a very inconsistent rotation vastly underperforming this year. Not one of them is reliable, and they are paid over 10 times as much as the bullpen.

OK. I forgot about Wright, who completely justifies starting Vazquez. Or so I hope.

Just maybe the Yankee catcher is as obtuse as Vazquez. Chavis is dead meat against high fastballs, but pretty good on low breaking stuff.

Only two culprits so far today--other than MLB stupid idea and John Henry agreeing to it--and they are Porcello being Porcello on a bad day and his aider and abettor Vazquez. The Sox have won 11 of the 11 most recent games in which Vazquez has not played.

Sox continue (all season, in fact) to keep 13 pitchers on the active roster. 5 starters, including Johnson now, and 8 relievers, including Wright now. The 12 position players include 2 catchers (Leon and Vazquez), 4 outfielders (Beni, JBJ, Betts, JDM), and 6 infielders (Devers, Betts, Nunez, Holt, Hernandez, and Hernandez. Interestingly, the Yankees active roster also shows 13 pitchers and 12 position players, including 2 catchers, 4 outfielders, 5 infielders, and 1 DH.