Maxbialystock

I usually don't root for former Sox players, but it is impossible not to root for Daniel Bard. I agree the Sox have usually let guys go for good reasons, and certainly that is true of Bard. But the Sox were also the ones who messed up his head big time--he was a terrific reliever before they made him a starter. To be honest, it's nothing short of amazing that somehow he won that mental battle and made it all the way back. I don't root for Mookie, but cannot help but admire the way he plays the game. I think the Dodgers real postseason star is that shortstop, but Mookie just brings so much to a game. If he just gets on base, he's trouble. If he's playing right field, he is about as good as there is at helping get the pitcher out of trouble. And most days he is trouble at the plate. If anything, he seems even more enthusiastic than he was in Boston. I was a pretty big Ellsbury fan, but completely agreed with getting him go to the Yankees for that insane salary and loved that he never really earned it. Never rooted for Manny Ramirez after he left. But I definitely root for the Dodgers manager for that one great, great stolen base in game 4 of the 2004 ALCS.

I'm fine with letting Betts go even though he clearly is a big help to the Dodgers. He might just be a six tool player: he can hit, hit with power, field, throw, run, and play smart. Last night was some smart baserunning, but I really liked the way (in the NLCS) he converted a possible triple (a line drive into the right field corner) into a definite single by the way the played the carom.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see that much value in any player. I think Trout is better than Mookie, and he has not been able to turn Angels around--nor will he. You can maybe say a great player puts butts in seats, but the Dodgers already have great attendance. To remind: Mookie is just one of nine in the lineup and one of nine in the field; he is one of 13 position players, with the other 12 all being pitchers, which Mookie doesn't do. I gotta say, however, he has made a bunch of nice defensive plays in the postseason. They all went ape last night when he grabbed that dinger, but the one I liked was the opposing hit into the right field corner which Mookie fielded so well, then threw so well, the hitter didn't even try for 2B. I also liked that grab when he realized almost immediately that the only way to get that line drive was to stay put and jump as high as he could. In other words, money aside, I think he is a real asset for MLB (and the Dodgers of course).

True. And when he arrived at Baltimore in 1988 (age 22) he was lousy and stayed that way until Houston traded him to Philly, where he was excellent his first year there, 1992 (age 26). Thereafter, 1993-2007, he was pretty reliable when he wasn't injured. My guess is the Sox coaches did their level best to screw him up and he was lucky to escape to Baltimore, Houston, and finally Philly, where he blossomed.

A palpable hit. Nothing like some sarcasm to spice things up.

Schilling came to the Sox at the end of his career--the last stop before retiring. Clemens was drafted in 1983 and started 20 games for the Boston Red Sox in 1984 (when he was 22), so I have my doubts about the genius of the Sox pitching coaches. I think he arrived almost fully formed with a great fastball and pretty good control. Two years later he went 24-4 with a WAR of 8.8. See Notin's post on Eck. I honestly think you know your baseball, so the fact that even you can't think of any pitchers the Sox really developed suggests that they are indeed clueless.

From what I've read about Bloom's system, you have to be good at both. You have to know what to look for in young arms and you have to have a tried and tested system for helping them reach their potential.

No doubt, but being more interested in scouting than DD was is a pretty low hurdle.

No doubt you are right about the scouting, but there is overwhelming evidence that the Sox don't know diddly about developing pitchers.

Bloom sure looks like a carbon copy of Epstein--Yalie who loved baseball (but only Theo played in HS but not at Yale) and went into MLB right out of college. However, three big differences: 1) Bloom grew up in one system, the Rays, which placed a premium on developing players because buying them was out of the question--the Rays have consistently had team payrolls near the bottom of MLB; 2) Bloom literally wrote the book for the Rays system of developing players, especially pitchers, which has proven to be very successful; 3) Bloom's entire MLB experience was with the Rays, whereas Epstein worked for the Orioles and Padres before coming to Boston, which means Epstein was/is probably more adaptable. I think Chaim Bloom was a great hire, but I am less sure that he will be a good fit because the Sox are consistently profitable even when John Henry approves team salaries among the highest in MLB. Neither he nor his GMs nor the Red Sox Nation are known for their patience. Also, if Chaim Bloom intends to overhaul the Sox entire system, how receptive will all those scouts, coaches, minor league managers. etc be? The movie Moneyball exaggerated (for dramatic effect) the negative reactions of the scouts, A's announcers, and especially manager Art Howe to all the trades and moves Billy Bean made, but there was a kernel of truth in there. Heck, had I been an A's fan, I would have said Billy Bean was nuts. My guess is that Chaim Bloom, who wrote an article published in Baseball Prospectus in 1997 (when he was 14) and has therefore been a real student of the game for 23 years and an MLB professional for 15 years, already knows all of the above and will steer a course that blends the three approaches: 1) spending some real money where it makes sense, but 2) bringing team salaries down comfortably below the MLB salary cap, and 3) at the same time building a badly needed system for developing players, especially pitchers. Item 2 has already begun, and 3 has probably been initiated in some form, but so far I haven't seen examples of 1 (spending real money on players where it makes sense).

I enjoyed it too. Great start, and then the bullpen came in and leaked away that 4 run lead--the most infuriating being Barnes' gopher ball in the 9th. Thinking back to how the game evolved, I tend to agree with your randomness theory. Either team could have won. That said, the Yankees starter gave up 4 runs in 4.2 innings. The Yankees bullpen gave up no runs in 4.1 innings and one "unearned" run (extra inning runs are all unearned) in 3 innings. That was by and large part of a season-long pattern, the Sox bullpen completely outmatched. The Sox still have the worst ERA in MLB even though it's coming down a little. I think it got to 6.2 and maybe 6.3 and is now 5.9.

Houck's slider is gold tonight. I normally support umps, but tonight clearly Houck is outperforming the home plate ump.

I think Brad Stevens needs to bring in Houck because right now the Celtics defense sucks.

So far Houck's slider has been his best pitch. Celtics lead 34-24 in the 2d quarter.

Houck relied heavily on the fast ball in the 1st, but got lucky with those two hard hit outs. Two sliders out of the zone (low, which is good) got it to 3-2, followed by a nice fastball, swung on and missed, on the outside corner. Go, Sox!

This season I've been madder at the Sox than I can remember--going all the way back to 1949 when I started reading the box scores. But even this year I have enjoyed some of the games, including the last one, which allowed the Sox to split that 4 game series against the Rays.

I'm fine with one person for the whole series GT, but have never thought Miami was that special--even after spending half a day on Fisher Island. I wasn't that enamored with Honolulu either, and it's nicer than Miami.

Back to the OP and the question asked in the thread title. Mookie was traded because his salary was going to be--and now in fact is--prohibitively expensive for a Sox team with an already high payroll and weak pitching. He was/is unaffordable if the goal was/is to produce a winning team capable of a 5th WS in the John Henry era.

I'm doing this on the Talk Sox forum because I'm focusing on just one guy, Rafael Devers, and one team the Sox. I've tended to view WAR favorably because it does try to include the whole player in that one stat. But I just looked at the Sox stats to date and discovered that so far Rafael Devers is absolute poison for the Sox with a WAR of -0.8, which is easily the worst on the team. Next worse is JDM at -.5 and after him Peraza at -0.4. Granted, he has 9 errors, but he also is second on the team in total bases--59 to Bogie's 66--3d in RBI's, and 4th among regulars in OPS. Meanwhile, every single pitcher on the Sox woebegone staff has a better WAR than Devers. Please don't tell me that's apple and oranges because the whole idea of WAR--wins above replacement--is to allow comparisons between all players. Anybody want to join my war on WAR?

I'm doing this on the Talk Sox forum because I'm focusing on just one guy, Rafael Devers, and one team the Sox. I've tended to view WAR favorably because it does try to include the whole player in that one stat. But I just looked at the Sox stats to date and discovered that so far Rafael Devers is absolute poison for the Sox with a WAR of -0.8, which is easily the worst on the team. Next worse is JDM at -.5 and after him Peraza at -0.4. Granted, he has 9 errors, but he also is second on the team in total bases--59 to Bogie's 66--3d in RBI's, and 4th among regulars in OPS. Meanwhile, every single pitcher on the Sox woebegone staff has a better WAR than Devers. Please don't tell me that's apple and oranges because the whole idea of WAR--wins above replacement--is to allow comparisons between all players. Anybody want to join my war on WAR?

Therein lies the tale of the 2020 season.

Agree with moonslav. Moreland had a spectacular start to this season, but that just gave him better trade value. Not a player to build on.

I do get espn+ and can assure the blackout extends there as well.

Apparently not. Too bad for Holt, a very likable player.

Thanks. I questioned that trade because I had no knowledge of what the Sox were getting.