Maxbialystock

Could be right. I think closer is over-rated--thus my example of Kimbrel in the 2018 postseason--but Barnes has had a bunch of terrific outings this season, and his teammates all watched him do it.

FWIW, I wish Cora had sent Richards out. Robles is the closer and already has one Sox save, but Richards has looked awfully good in the bullpen. This season for the Sox seems to be moving into what seems a "wild and crazy" phase, so sending in Richards can't be any wilder than sending Schwarber to 1B. In the movie 12 O'Clock High, the Gregory Peck character takes over a bomber wing (that bombs Germany and thereby loses planes and pilots) that needs to get better. One technique he uses is to put his worst (albeit experienced) pilot in charge of the "leper colony," which is crewmen who have screwed up. And they still have to go on bombing runs and after awhile prove themselves. Richards and Perez have joined what just might be a leper colony consisting of what--12 relievers so far?--who all want to show they can get guys out. A big caveat to that last paragraph. There still are some pretty good pitchers in the Sox bullpen: Ottavino, Whitlock (who's been better than Barnes all season long), Sawamura, Taylor, Hernandez (due back in September), and probably Richards too. Valdez has been good this year.

His first game--at DH--was August 13. His first game in LF was 10 days later and 3 days ago. I'd say they have proceeded with all possible speed.

So I take it that in this argument you are officially punting?

Can't disagree. Reportedly, he's been working hard in practice, and he is a former catcher, but seeing is believing. On the other hand, why not try this? Dalbec and even old pro Shaw have looked lousy at 1b, so how much worse could Schwarber be? Moreover, if this works, the Sox don't have to go hunting for a first baseman next year. And this year they get to send Kike back to CF to anchor that outfield as only he can do--plus Arroyo goes back to 2b and the Sox have a heckuva lineup.

Last night to me was the opposite of seeing a team punt. Houck was so-so, giving up 4 runs, 3 earned, but not for lack of trying. Then the bullpen, which lately has stunk--see the night before--pitched 5 innings, giving up 0 runs. Just like they did earlier this season. And the lineup came back to tie the game in the bottom of the 9th, 4-4. Then and only then did Robles roll over and play dead, giving up a 2 run dinger, then getting 2 outs, then giving up a 3 run dinger for 5 run Texas lead. However, in the bottom of the 10th Dalbec singled to lead off. If Vazquez gets a single instead of a GIDP, that dinger by Kike makes the game interesting.

I disagree. If Schwarber can handle first base tonight, the Sox are going to have an excellent lineup and improved outfield defense: Kike, CF (OPS .813) ; Schwarber, 1B (1.100); Bogaerts, SS (.881); Devers, 3B (.897); JDM, DH (.868); Renfroe, RF (.817), Verdugo, LF (.791), Arroyo, 2B (.787), and Vazquez, C (.650). I also don't see any of the starters slacking off, ditto the bullpen. That does not mean they will all pitch great, only that they aren't punting. If anything, I see players putting a lot of pressure on themselves.

This is neat. The starters own the 1st inning and clearly need to do a better job there. My impression is that most, if not all, Sox starters very much prefer fastballs in the 1st inning, no doubt thinking it's either an extension of their pregame warmup or an opportunity to establish their authority. The 6th OPS might be high because that's when the Sox starters are sure to be going through the opposing lineup for the dreaded 3d time. The low 9th OPS might be because of Barnes and Cora's belief that only your best reliever should get the 9th in a close game.

I'm with you and have always thought those first 8 innings were bunch of horsehockey. It's the 9th and only the 9th where the game is won or lost.

Finally!!! One other talksoxer who realizes that Colome actually caused Verdugo to strike out. Everyone else has implied or inferred that Verdugo should instantly recognize where every pitch is going and swing only when he gets a fastball right down the middle--also that Verdugo can do that regardless of who is pitching and how well they are pitching. Indeed, it's because Colone got 2 outs after giving up the tying home run that he deserves some credit. And it's because Robles kept making the same stupid pitches right down the middle that he deserves censure.

Neat, thanks. I was close and better than I thought I would be.

I think you have it. Ideally, a good bullpen can "lock down" the 7th, 8th, and 9th innings, which means facing every hitter on the opposing team. So that good bullpen should probably have several pitchers who, if asked, could close because they are that good. For those who believe the closer is the key to winning, please don't forget Craig Kimbrel, the Sox great closer who wasn't so great, at least not in the 2018 postseason when his ERA blew up to 5.91. In game 1 vs. the Yankees, Kimbrel gave up 1 run to make the score 5-4, and got a save. In game 4 vs the Yankees, he gave up 2 runs and got another save. His 3d postseason save, vs. Houston, was again after giving up a run--the Sox won 7-5. Another run, another save in an 8-6 win over the Astros. Finally, his 5th save--again vs. the Astros--included no runs score and a final score of 4-1--and in his 6th save vs. the Dodgers, he again gave up no runs in a 4-2 win. In the 2018 postseason, the ace reliever for the Sox was beyond question Joe Kelly, who gave up 1 run in 11.1 innings. Eovaldi was also magnificent in relief. Barnes went 8.2 innings--against three really good hitting teams--giving up 1 run, and so did Brasier. So, all in all, I think the mystique about the necessity of THE GREAT CLOSER is mostly a bunch of hooey.

I disagree. I think the 1st inning overall has been a bigger problem for the Sox this year than the 9th.

Perhaps. We'd have to ask moonslav to tell us who was available in late July who could have really helped and was reasonably available. My gut says that Cora would have stayed with Barnes no matter what and that the Sox would have lost the same games. They didn't lose the one 3 days ago when Barnes blew yet another save because Whitlock was great and the Sox won it in the 11th.

Whitlock could certainly close, but he has also been hugely valuable as a late inning reliever who can go more than 1 inning. He has pitched the most innings of any Sox reliever--60.1. Next most is Ottavino with 50. And Whitlock has the 2d best WAR, 2.5, on the entire pitching staff and an ERA of 1.64.

Actually, not the past week or so. It really goes back further. Barnes last save was August 4 at Detroit when he pitched a scoreless 9th with a 4-1 lead. Barnes has not had a save since then, and his ERA for August is 16.88. After the August 4 save came the Toronto series, Aug 6, 7, 7, and 8, which the Jays took 3 games to 1 and Barnes lost the 2d game and the 4th game and then lost the first game at Tampa on August 10. Since August 10 Barnes has pitched in just 3 games and once as a closer. That game was 3 days ago vs. the Rangers: Barnes blew a 2 run lead in the 9th Sox, but the Sox won it in the 11th thanks to the great pitching by Whitlock and the Sox hitters. So, no question, the Sox could have used a really good reliever. But, in Bloom's defense, there were no really good relievers at bargain rates last month. Plus no way could Bloom have predicted that his ASG closer would collapse in August. Barnes's ERA in July was 1.13.

True. But don't forget that on that other thread, the one discussing who closes with Barnes on the sidelines, Robles was touted as his replacement. The simple fact is that Robles ain't ready, not when he gives up 2 dingers and 5 runs in 1 inning. Which gets to my biggest point. In two games vs. the Twins, the Sox have scored 11 and 6 runs, but the Sox pitching has given up 9 and 9 runs. To me all the moaning and groaning about Verdugo not coming through misses the much bigger point that the Sox pitching is looking pretty frayed. ERod, Pivetta, and Houck all had weak starts their last times on the mound. And the bullpen continues to disappoint even though they did great last night for the 5 innings between Houck and Robles.

I say again, you needed to watch the at bat because Colome threw three great pitches to what is obviously a blind spot for Verdugo. They were all cut fastballs low in the zone, and the last two were below the zone, but Verdugo swung at them anyway. And don't forget that Renfroe also had a shot and popped up to the catcher. Also don't forget that in the 10th Robles, like Colombe, started out by giving up a 2 run dinger and then by putting two more guys on base, while also getting 2 men out. So what does he do? He throws another fat pitch that gets hammered to CF for 3 more Twins runs. If Robles gets that 3d out instead, the Sox likely would have tied the score in the 10th.

A squeeze bunt would have been great. Problem is, the Sox don't consider bunting to be useful. Had Verdugo been told to bunt, the chances are pretty good he would not have tried to bunt those pitches.

Once Schwarber moves to 1B, the Sox should have their best lineup this season: Kike, CF, OPS .813 Schwarber, 1B, 1.100 Bogaerts, SS, .881 Devers, 3B, .897 JDM, DH, .868 Verdugo, LF, .791 Renfroe, RF, .817 Arroyo, 2B, .787 Vazquez, C, .650 However, Good pitching still trumps good hitting, and right now the Sox have bad pitching. The bullpen, despite some good work last night before Robles came in, is in turmoil. And the improved rotation with Richards and Perez replaced by Sale and Houck, is still inconsistent--see the most recent starts by Pivetta, Houck, and ERod. Against the last place Twins, the Sox lineup (not the one above) scored 11 and 6 runs, but the Sox pitchers gave up 9 and 9 runs.

I thought it was great pitching. The Twins have a good book on Verdugo, and Colome simply kept throwing to his weak spot. Colome also got Renfroe to pop out to the catcher. Contrast Colome with Robles. Both gave up 2 runs dingers and both then put 2 more guys on base. But then Colome K'd Verdugo and popped up Renfroe. Robles threw another meatball for a 3 run dinger.

Could be right. Clearly Vazquez needed the reminder last night that there were 2 outs. Indeed, when it's late August in a very long season of ups and downs, the coaches need to work extra hard at keeping the baserunners alert. Ironically, Vazquez is also the Sox player who loves to gamble on the basepaths, often foolishly. That said, it's also worth nothing that Verdugo, starting from 1st, scored on a single because of alert baserunning and an error. The hitter, Renfroe, could not advance to 2b on the error, but Verdugo went from 1B to home plate.

I did watch Verdugo's at bat. Contrary to the commentary from other talksoxers or any stupid announcers, Colome in fact threw three great pitches, cutters down in the zone, which clearly is Verdugo's weak spot. The last two were in fact below the zone, and Verdugo swung hard at both of them because he's blind down there. Munoz!!!!????? Is this a joke? The Sox just scored 11 and 6 runs vs. the Twins while giving up 9 and 9 runs and you think the problem is the hitting?

It did indeed.

I did too. Up to Robles, the bullpen was pretty terrific tonight. The bats did score 6 runs, 5 earned. A better game than the way it started. Speaking of which, that's 2 straight so-so starts.