Maxbialystock

Finally!!! One other talksoxer who realizes that Colome actually caused Verdugo to strike out. Everyone else has implied or inferred that Verdugo should instantly recognize where every pitch is going and swing only when he gets a fastball right down the middle--also that Verdugo can do that regardless of who is pitching and how well they are pitching. Indeed, it's because Colone got 2 outs after giving up the tying home run that he deserves some credit. And it's because Robles kept making the same stupid pitches right down the middle that he deserves censure.

Neat, thanks. I was close and better than I thought I would be.

I think you have it. Ideally, a good bullpen can "lock down" the 7th, 8th, and 9th innings, which means facing every hitter on the opposing team. So that good bullpen should probably have several pitchers who, if asked, could close because they are that good. For those who believe the closer is the key to winning, please don't forget Craig Kimbrel, the Sox great closer who wasn't so great, at least not in the 2018 postseason when his ERA blew up to 5.91. In game 1 vs. the Yankees, Kimbrel gave up 1 run to make the score 5-4, and got a save. In game 4 vs the Yankees, he gave up 2 runs and got another save. His 3d postseason save, vs. Houston, was again after giving up a run--the Sox won 7-5. Another run, another save in an 8-6 win over the Astros. Finally, his 5th save--again vs. the Astros--included no runs score and a final score of 4-1--and in his 6th save vs. the Dodgers, he again gave up no runs in a 4-2 win. In the 2018 postseason, the ace reliever for the Sox was beyond question Joe Kelly, who gave up 1 run in 11.1 innings. Eovaldi was also magnificent in relief. Barnes went 8.2 innings--against three really good hitting teams--giving up 1 run, and so did Brasier. So, all in all, I think the mystique about the necessity of THE GREAT CLOSER is mostly a bunch of hooey.

I disagree. I think the 1st inning overall has been a bigger problem for the Sox this year than the 9th.

Perhaps. We'd have to ask moonslav to tell us who was available in late July who could have really helped and was reasonably available. My gut says that Cora would have stayed with Barnes no matter what and that the Sox would have lost the same games. They didn't lose the one 3 days ago when Barnes blew yet another save because Whitlock was great and the Sox won it in the 11th.

Whitlock could certainly close, but he has also been hugely valuable as a late inning reliever who can go more than 1 inning. He has pitched the most innings of any Sox reliever--60.1. Next most is Ottavino with 50. And Whitlock has the 2d best WAR, 2.5, on the entire pitching staff and an ERA of 1.64.

Actually, not the past week or so. It really goes back further. Barnes last save was August 4 at Detroit when he pitched a scoreless 9th with a 4-1 lead. Barnes has not had a save since then, and his ERA for August is 16.88. After the August 4 save came the Toronto series, Aug 6, 7, 7, and 8, which the Jays took 3 games to 1 and Barnes lost the 2d game and the 4th game and then lost the first game at Tampa on August 10. Since August 10 Barnes has pitched in just 3 games and once as a closer. That game was 3 days ago vs. the Rangers: Barnes blew a 2 run lead in the 9th Sox, but the Sox won it in the 11th thanks to the great pitching by Whitlock and the Sox hitters. So, no question, the Sox could have used a really good reliever. But, in Bloom's defense, there were no really good relievers at bargain rates last month. Plus no way could Bloom have predicted that his ASG closer would collapse in August. Barnes's ERA in July was 1.13.

True. But don't forget that on that other thread, the one discussing who closes with Barnes on the sidelines, Robles was touted as his replacement. The simple fact is that Robles ain't ready, not when he gives up 2 dingers and 5 runs in 1 inning. Which gets to my biggest point. In two games vs. the Twins, the Sox have scored 11 and 6 runs, but the Sox pitching has given up 9 and 9 runs. To me all the moaning and groaning about Verdugo not coming through misses the much bigger point that the Sox pitching is looking pretty frayed. ERod, Pivetta, and Houck all had weak starts their last times on the mound. And the bullpen continues to disappoint even though they did great last night for the 5 innings between Houck and Robles.

I say again, you needed to watch the at bat because Colome threw three great pitches to what is obviously a blind spot for Verdugo. They were all cut fastballs low in the zone, and the last two were below the zone, but Verdugo swung at them anyway. And don't forget that Renfroe also had a shot and popped up to the catcher. Also don't forget that in the 10th Robles, like Colombe, started out by giving up a 2 run dinger and then by putting two more guys on base, while also getting 2 men out. So what does he do? He throws another fat pitch that gets hammered to CF for 3 more Twins runs. If Robles gets that 3d out instead, the Sox likely would have tied the score in the 10th.

A squeeze bunt would have been great. Problem is, the Sox don't consider bunting to be useful. Had Verdugo been told to bunt, the chances are pretty good he would not have tried to bunt those pitches.

Once Schwarber moves to 1B, the Sox should have their best lineup this season: Kike, CF, OPS .813 Schwarber, 1B, 1.100 Bogaerts, SS, .881 Devers, 3B, .897 JDM, DH, .868 Verdugo, LF, .791 Renfroe, RF, .817 Arroyo, 2B, .787 Vazquez, C, .650 However, Good pitching still trumps good hitting, and right now the Sox have bad pitching. The bullpen, despite some good work last night before Robles came in, is in turmoil. And the improved rotation with Richards and Perez replaced by Sale and Houck, is still inconsistent--see the most recent starts by Pivetta, Houck, and ERod. Against the last place Twins, the Sox lineup (not the one above) scored 11 and 6 runs, but the Sox pitchers gave up 9 and 9 runs.

I thought it was great pitching. The Twins have a good book on Verdugo, and Colome simply kept throwing to his weak spot. Colome also got Renfroe to pop out to the catcher. Contrast Colome with Robles. Both gave up 2 runs dingers and both then put 2 more guys on base. But then Colome K'd Verdugo and popped up Renfroe. Robles threw another meatball for a 3 run dinger.

Could be right. Clearly Vazquez needed the reminder last night that there were 2 outs. Indeed, when it's late August in a very long season of ups and downs, the coaches need to work extra hard at keeping the baserunners alert. Ironically, Vazquez is also the Sox player who loves to gamble on the basepaths, often foolishly. That said, it's also worth nothing that Verdugo, starting from 1st, scored on a single because of alert baserunning and an error. The hitter, Renfroe, could not advance to 2b on the error, but Verdugo went from 1B to home plate.

I did watch Verdugo's at bat. Contrary to the commentary from other talksoxers or any stupid announcers, Colome in fact threw three great pitches, cutters down in the zone, which clearly is Verdugo's weak spot. The last two were in fact below the zone, and Verdugo swung hard at both of them because he's blind down there. Munoz!!!!????? Is this a joke? The Sox just scored 11 and 6 runs vs. the Twins while giving up 9 and 9 runs and you think the problem is the hitting?

It did indeed.

I did too. Up to Robles, the bullpen was pretty terrific tonight. The bats did score 6 runs, 5 earned. A better game than the way it started. Speaking of which, that's 2 straight so-so starts.

So whaddayathink? Robles for closer not so much? In his defense, 1 of those 5 runs was unearned.

97 mph fastball, not bad. But right down the middle, not so good.

Given recent history, an astonishing comeback. Schwarber was a great acquisition of whom I was dismissive, but no longer. Verdugo just never could figure out that cut fastball. He might as well have batted blindfolded.

That should do it. Two very good pitches led to that groundout.

Now it's 4 singles in 5 innings, and for that last out he absolutely tied Kike up in knots.

Ober is not quite pitching like a stiff. Sox have 3 singles in 4 innings.

I never realized just how much of a team player Pivetta is. He saw last night's game, how much the bullpen is struggling, and took it upon himself to put this game out of reach before Cora can bring a reliever in.

He is the dumbest baserunner on the team, which makes him a natural for catcher.

It's that slider. Very hittable, and not just by Sano.