Maxbialystock

Wow. Gutsy call. You are absolutely right about the sun and also about the fact that everyone--and I mean everyone (but me) on talksox--has ignored the fact that our ace gave up 10 hits in 3.2 innings. While I do agree with moonslav and others that the defense stinks, I would ask our resident experts to name a Sox team in the John Henry era that can rightfully be said to have won the WS with great defense. The Sox win with hitting and, when they can beg, borrow, or steal it, pitching. Indeed, my favorite example of how unimportant the Sox FO considers defense to be was the 2013 season when they dumped Iglesias, a brilliant shortstop, to acquire Jake Peavy, a middling starter who nevertheless was more valuable than Iglesias, who went to the Tigers who lost to the Sox in the ALCS. With Peavy and without Iglesias, the Sox won their 3d WS in the JH era. Or consider maybe the best Sox team ever, 2018. Here are some of the DWAR's for that team: Nunez -1.5, JDM -1.4, Bogey -1.0, Devers -.9, Benintendi (yes, the same guy who got "catch of the year" for that play in in Houston) -.6, Moreland -.5, Pearce -.4, Travis -.3, Holt -.1. That Betts +1.8 and JBJ +.9 were excellent in RF and CF no doubt causes us to think that was a really good defensive team, which it was not. That team with its so-so defense won 108 regular season games, beat the Yankees 3-1, the Astros 4-1, and the Dodgers 4-1 to win the 4th WS in the JH era. I am not advocating lousy defense and do appreciate moonslav's points, but have to think it's a little late in the JH era to suddenly decide the Sox need good defense to win. Indeed, this throw-together team which none--repeat, none--of us expected to go anywhere this season, is still very much in the hunt for the postseason despite being hit hard by the pandemic. Also, FWIW, I too like the Rays defense, which looks pretty solid. But guess what? The Rays lead MLB in runs scored!!! Yesterday--and this is going to come as a shock to everyone on this thread--they got 19 hits, and not all of them were because some Sox player didn't quite make the play another, better defender might have made.

His cumulative WAR for 10 seasons is 10.1. This year so far it's -1.2. In 9 season's, Bogey's cumulative WAR is 28.4, and this year so far it's 4.2

You could be right. It was worth 3 runs right there.

I give him credit when he plays well. Recently, in fact. If you watched this game, you might have noticed the Ray closer threw a lot of sliders in the dirt, but none were wild because the Rays catcher moved over to block them. Vazquez does not do that.

I'd love to blame Verdugo, but Sale gave up 10 hits in 3.2 innings, so no way, the Rays don't score a bunch off him. In case no one has noticed, the Rays actually lead MLB in runs scored. By a bunch. Also, FWIW, the Sox of the top order came up in the 10th with 1 run scored, a runner on 1b, and no one out. And not another run scored.

Better team won, simple as that. What grates is just how awful the Sox looked--and that absolutely includes our presumptive ace, Sale, who gave up 10 hits in 3.2 innings.

I'm expecting at least one GIDP from Schwarber, Renfroe, and/or Martinez.

The Sox actually have made more than 4 errors.

Shaw has demonstrated he doesn't have much of a glove either.

Whitlock gave up 3 earned runs--so far--and Ottavino gave up 1. So even the healthy relievers stink right now.

Whitlock needs to go with two good pitches--a fastball and a changeup or slider or splitter--from the get go. And it goes without saying that Vazquez called a crappy game.

Renfroe is one dumb outfielder.

Vazquez and Whitlock seem to love those fastballs almost as much as the Rays do. Meadow's inside the parker dinger was off his 8th straight fastball.

Vazquez is such a loser.

Mama said there'd be days like this, and in this case it's Verdugo's mama.

Whitlock should be able to get this save.

Schwarber, JDM, and Devers all strike out.

Rays pitchers do like the lower part of the zone--even when the first pitch is a ball and below the zone.

I'm beginning to think Ottavino is telegraphing his pitches.

Well, if Davis is the guy coming in, I understand why Ottavino had to prove he didn't have it before being pulled.

Cora never listens to me and apparently doesn't watch the game either. 3 Rays batters, now 3 hard hit balls.

Good grief. Who was that masked man jerking out still another home run?

I think Whitlock starts the 8th.

Yep. Ottavino stinks, but at least he got lucky.

On the other hand, Ottavino is starting to remind me of Barnes.