Maxbialystock

Agree. Between now and the Detroit series (Aug 11-13) when Sale should be available to start and maybe go 4 innings, the Sox-- Play 1 more in Seattle (Crawford starting tonight), Get tomorrow off, Play 3 (Aug 4-6) vs. the Jays with Paxton, Pivetta and the bullpen starting, Play 4 vs. the Royals (Aug 7-10) with Bello, Crawford, Paxton, and Pivetta starting, Play 3 vs. the Tigers (August 11-13) with Sale, Bello, and Crawford starting, Get a day off August 14, And then go 16 straight games/days, Aug 15-30, with a 5 man rotation, but with the possibility of mixing in bullpen starts, especially after Whitlock and Houck rejoin the team sometime between 21 and 30 August. 31 August and 7 September are days off.

Hah! I just now read this--after having said almost exactly the same thing on 2 other threads. I think Sale, who started yesterday at Worcester and went 40 pitches (0 runs, 1 hit, 2 BB's, 3 K's), will be back for the Seattle series, August 11-13, and that Whitlock and Houck will be back about 10 days after that. My conclusion, of course, is that the real reason for no big trades is that, with the returns of Story, Sale, Houck, and Whitlock, this is a pretty good Sox team. It's not as good as the 2018 and 2013 teams, both of which acquired starters (Eovaldi in 2018 and Peavy in 2013) for the stretch run, but good enough to compete and to get even better in 2024.

And they are absolutely right. This team is a complete shambles. Or maybe not. Consider-- 1. Story is due back this weekend, which means three good infield bats--Devers, Story, and Casas--every day. And a 4th, Turner at 2b, when Cora thinks he needs him there so Casas can play 1b and Yoshida can DH. And some combo of Reyes/Chang/Arroyo to help with the defense. 2. Four good bats--Yoshida, Duran, Duvall, and Dugo--in the outfield plus Refsnyder, who is really good vs lefties. Yoshida and Turner share the DH slot, depending on how Cora shapes his day to day lineups. Also, Duran has stolen 23 bases, been caught twice, and forced a bunch of errors that led to additional bases not counted as stolen. 3. Two good catchers, Wong and McGuire (who bats lefty and hit that dinger last night in his first game back). 4. When Sale returns, which could happen as soon as the Detroit series, August 11-13, a pretty good rotation--Paxton, Bello, Sale, Pivetta, and Crawford. If you go by quality starts, they are the best Sox rotation since 2018--barring further injuries, of course. 5. When Houck and Whitlock return 10-15 days after Sale and presumably go to the bullpen, a pretty good bullpen: Jansen, Whitlock, Houck, Martin, Bernardino, Schreiber, Winckowski, and TBD. 6. Of the above, Devers, Story, Casas, Duran, Yoshida, Wong, McGuire, Dugo, Bello, Crawford, Pivetta, Shreiber, Whitlock, Winckowski, and Houck are all age 30 or younger. Those 6 sniveling points notwithstanding, I'd say Chaim Bloom is the worst MLB GM since, I don't know, maybe Branch Rickey.

I know, I know. It's just crushing. How will life go on for Sox fans? Well, consider-- 1. Story is due back this weekend, which means three good infield bats--Devers, Story, and Casas--every day. And a 4th, Turner at 2b, when Cora thinks he needs him there so Casas can play 1b and Yoshida can DH. And some combo of Reyes/Chang/Arroyo to help with the defense. 2. Four good bats--Yoshida, Duran, Duvall, and Dugo--in the outfield plus Refsnyder, who is really good vs lefties. Yoshida and Turner share the DH slot, depending on how Cora shapes his day to day lineups. Also, Duran has stolen 23 bases, been caught twice, and forced a bunch of errors that led to additional bases not counted as stolen. 3. Two good catchers, Wong and McGuire (who bats lefty and hit that dinger last night in his first game back). 4. When Sale returns, which could happen as soon as the Detroit series, August 11-13, a pretty good rotation--Paxton, Bello, Sale, Pivetta, and Crawford. If you go by quality starts, they are the best Sox rotation since 2018--barring further injuries, of course (a pretty big if). 5. When Houck and Whitlock return 10-15 days after Sale and presumably go to the bullpen, a pretty good bullpen: Jansen, Whitlock, Houck, Martin, Bernardino, Schreiber, Winckowski, and TBD. 6. Of the above, Devers, Story, Casas, Duran, Yoshida, Wong, McGuire, Dugo, Bello, Crawford, Pivetta, Shreiber, Whitlock, Winckowski, and Houck are all age 30 or younger. So, yeah, it looks really, really grim for the future and Chaim Bloom is a nut case and should never have been hired.

Not luck. Toughness.

Bello now stands at 48 pitches (and 1 run) in 4 innings. Who woulda thunk that after inning #1? I'd say McGuire is good to have back. Plus the solid sac fly and an rbi.

Yoshida doubles, the idiot Seattle pitcher walks Devers and hits Duvall to load the bases, and Arroyo comes through big time as does McGuire. Bottom of the order knocks in all 3 runs!

Another bold prediction that crashes and burns.

Could not be happier than to eat those words. Great finish to the 1st, holding the Mariners to 1 run!

Bello and McGuire are really working well together. Who needs Wong?

Of course you're right. I did say, 2d time around, that Turner couldn't play 2b every day. Your points about his overall value and the dangers of getting injured at 2b only make that point stronger. On the other hand, I just think it's neat when he does (I think he plays 2B about 10% of the time) and even neater when he makes a great play like that glove flip toss recently.

Not going there. The WHIP and ERA are real and it doesn't matter whether or not he started, especially when we know: 1) he sort of started from the bullpen; 2) he improved dramatically after he went to the bullpen, which gave him time to work on his pitches; 3) he just started, went 7.1 innings, and gave up 3 runs for a QUALITY START.

I didn't know that. Thanks.

Can't disagree with any of that. 1. I've argued (mostly in support of moonslav) that the Sox badly need a starter because these bullpen games will be very expensive once we start playing 48 games with just 2 days off. That starts Friday, August 4. Cora will want/need Sale starting within a week to 10 days after that (if not sooner). But I'm defending Bloom because I suspect the "selling" teams are asking too much for even a so-so starter. In fact, I doubt that Bloom can get anyone as good as Bello, Paxton, Crawford, or Pivetta. 2. Agree. 3. Agree, but I'm still willing to give up some defense to get another good bat in the lineup. So is Cora. But just not most of the time.

I don't think he's worth $16M because he's past his prime, but I do like those 23 saves.

1. I've been saying September because Ian Browne (mlb.com) has said so, but now he says both start rehab assignments soon, so they should be back in August. And Sale should be back sooner. I expect Sale to be Good Sale when he returns, but with pitch limits, at least initially. I expect Houck and Whitlock to go to the bullpen. 2. Fine, trade Duvall because the Sox still have Yoshida, Duran, Dugo, and Ref. 3. Don't disagree about Turner's defense at 2b, but Cora has used him so that Casas can play 1b and Yoshida can DH. 5. As I said in 1, Houck and Whitlock should both go to the bullpen, but I'm fine with whatever Cora decides.

Depending on what Bloom gets back, I don't mind trading Duvall or Dugo or whoever.

Good point about Sunday--I forgot it was 11 innings, etc. When Story arrives, I dump Chang.

Time for a really dumb post (yet again) by yours truly. It sure looks like Bloom is standing pat, especially with regard to getting a decent starter. And I agree with him. Here's why-- 1. Rotation right now is pretty decent with Bello, Paxton, Crawford, and Pivetta--and one or more of Sale, Houck, or Whitlock due back this month. 2. Five pretty decent outfield bats in Yoshida, Duran, Duvall, Dugo, and Refsnyder--and only Yoshida is weak defensively. 3. When Story returns (shortly), Cora can field four good infield bats: Devers, Story, Turner, and Casas. Plus Reyes and Chang available for defense. 4. With McGuire also due back soon, pretty good catching (especially Wong) and above average hitting (for catchers). 5. A so-so bullpen, which earned "so-so" last night when Jacques was sent in, no doubt at Seattle's request, to sabotage a pretty darn good start by Pivetta. However, Whitlock and Houck could help in the bullpen provided they actually come off the IL.

Right now he's 4th best behind Bello, Paxton, and Crawford. When and if Houck and/or Whitlock return, I would put him ahead of both of them. If Good Sale returns, fine, Pivetta is 5th best. Some stats to back that up. Among Sox starters, Pivetta's WHIP is 2d best, 1.13 to Paxton's 1.09 and ahead of Sale's 1.19. Among Sox starters, his ERA of 4.08 is 4th best. Among Sox starters, his IP is/are 88.1, second to Bello's 96. I believe his breaking balls are sharper than earlier in the season and that he uses them more--to good effect. Thus his ERA of 4.08 is the best of his career--with the caveat that it's just 88 innings (vs. 133 in 2017, 164 in 2018, 155 in 2021, and 175 last year).

Pivetta was great. His manager, not so great.

Good analysis, especially on Houck and Whitlock. The guy (Ian Browne) for mlb.com now says Houck will return in August and that Whitlock is a possibility. Both can be long relievers, which would definitely help--as you have said. Also agree the Sox need another starter. I'm skeptical and hopeful about Sale for obvious reasons.

Well said. This team has in fact been fun to watch. Did I get pissed at losing games 2 and 3 in San Francisco? Of course I did. But they were competitive, exciting games. Plus--and I always say this--we know that John Henry has given Bloom some guidance on how much he can spend, especially on starters. DD and the 2019 collapse (after the tremendous 2018 season) poisoned that well.

You could be right, but I think Duvall could play RF, Duran CF, and Yoshida LF with Refsnyder in reserve. Right now the three best bats on the whole team belong to Duran (OPS .873), Duvall (.872), and Yoshida (.858). This year Dugo has been our best defensive outfielder and therefore valuable, but his bat is lagging, plus he has trade value.

Agree with both you and dgalehouse. Must bring that guy on 2b home, especially on road games. Also agree with those who say pitchers dominated hitters in this series.