Maxbialystock

You could have a point. In the movie Moneyball, the John Henry actor tries to hire Billy Beane and seems committed to Sabermetrics and, like the A's, getting more wins for fewer bucks in player salaries. But in fact the real John Henry was not reluctant to spend big bucks for talent, especially pitchers because then, as always, the Sox system was lousy at finding and developing pitchers. David Dombrowski was the culmination of all that because he arrived after the 2015 season, inherited some talented guys, and opened the salary floodgates to fix the pitching with the likes of David Price, Chris Sale, Nathan Eovaldi, and closer Kimbrel--to say nothing of bringing in a good DH, JD Martinez, to replace David Ortiz. The result was the incredible 2018 Sox, who had the best Sox season ever and one of the best MLB team seasons ever with 108 regular season wins and an 11-3 postseason record. However, the Sox collapsed the very next season, 2019, which apparently soured John Henry on spending large. So he dumped DD and brought in Chaim Bloom, who came out of the Tampa Rays system, which was and is one of the best systems in MLB for finding and developing talent without paying big bucks for it. So we are clearly in a sea change. This year the Sox collective salaries are ranked 15th, the lowest ranking in the John Henry era and probably in the last 40 or 50 years of the Sox. That said, however, Devers did sign a $300M or so contract last year, and Story's is $140M for 6 years. Thus does Sox attendance continue to struggle to recover from the covid 2020 season. In 2012, for example, the Sox went 69-93--a horrible record--and averaged 37,563 butts in seats per game. Right now the Sox are 6 games above .500 (63-57) with a real shot at a wild card, and the average attendance is 32,900.

Target. I kept saying the Sox hitters were flat on their ass while Paxton was pitching a quality start. Then Reyes came thru, yet again! Suddenly, a ball game where none existed. Then Whitlock didn't have it even though his last time out vs the Tigers he went 2 innings while giving up 0 runs. As everybody knows by now, my chief concern is hitting. Weak hitting by the Sox is the hobby horse I keep riding, and even I am getting tired of the whining. Thanks to you, I still think this is a good team capable of getting to the postseason. All the pieces are there.

Bard's problem was way, way, way worse than Whitlock's is. Bard completely lost his control.

I can't disagree. That's why they are bringing him back as a starter.

Very few MLB pitchers don't want to be starters, and Daniel Bard was very eager to become one. Same goes for Whitlock. Moreover, since the 2019 season John Henry has shown an enormous reluctance to aggressively go after top notch starters, with the result that we have seen all manner of starters over the past 3 seasons, including this one. It is in that context that Whitlock was given a chance to start, both last season and this one.

I don't recall Whitlock having a high 90's fastball. Whitlock got to start because he has a good repertoire of pitches. However, a good argument can be made that he just doesn't have the strength to start every 5 or 6 days and throw 70-110 pitches. I think Houck does have that strength. The issue with him is his repertoire. But right before the line drive hit him he seemed to be doing OK the 3d time through the other team's lineup.

I like Wong and have said so repeatedly. However, I now suspect the Nats have detected something in his stance which says a low pitch is coming. I say that because all 3 dingers--off two different Sox pitchers--were off pitches low in the zone or just below it.

Reyes ties the game! Reyes ties the game! Reyes ties the game! Not the high priced guys like Devers, Yoshida, Turner, Duvall, Story, et al. But Reyes.

The Sox have now gone 12 straight scoreless innings against the Nationals--the last 5 innings last night and the first 7 tonight. Sure looks like last night's win was kind of lucky, plus excellent work by the bullpen. Tonight Paxton had/has a quality start, 6 IP, 2 ER, and it sure looks like it's wasted. In the last 18 games, including this one (so far), the Sox have scored 57 runs or 3.16 runs (some of which were unearned) per game. This team has all its "good" hitters back on the active roster, and they still can't score freaking runs.

Refsnyder, the presumed greatest righty bat ever against lefty pitchers, is vastly overrated. The telltale on him is that Cora doesn't let him hit against righties, whereas almost all good righty bats can hit lefties and righties.

Sox “hitters” aren’t. Swingers and/or observers, maybe.

Could not agree more about the amount of physical exertion in playing a game--except for pitchers and catchers, of course. Thus does every MLB team carry 2 catchers and 6 thousand or so pitchers. No, I think the grind is maintaining focus during the 135 or so pitches your team's pitchers throw in every game. Plus every now and then your runner on first base has to sprint toward second on every pitch because of a 3-2 count and 2 outs. Plus baserunners have to be really focused, which we all can acknowledge is harder than it looks, especially 6 games a week for 6 months. Plus, of course, I like the notion of using the bench guys more often than once a month. On the other hand, we also know that four guys on the Braves have played all 117 games so far this season--in the hottest summer in human history (we think). And they have played well because all four have solid WAR's (fWAR's). And the Braves right now only have the best freaking record, 77-42 (.647), in MLB. (Footnote: Albies missed the last 2 games with an injury, so right now just Riley, Acuna, and Olson have played all 119 games for the Braves.) So I am not saying Cora's way is the only way, but am saying his way works for him and the Sox.

Pivetta 83 pitches to get thru 4 innings. 5 hits and 3 BB's, but also 7 K's.

Pretty bad call by the ump on the called 3d strike. Way outside.

Good point--not firing him, but at least tearing him a new one.

But then our catcher stupidly assumed the play was going home, tried to take 2b, and was thrown out. So instead of 2 on and 1 out, it's one on and two outs.

I know you're supportive of Alex Cora. I'm just being a pissant because I truly believe this discussion about days off is silly. I'm happy to give the Braves credit for what they do, but I'm convinced the numbers are completely on my side in defending Cora. To be absolutely clear, the evidence of the 2018 season argues very strongly that more days off--mostly because of injuries, not planned days off--made the Sox better, not worse. Mookie was the AL MVP and missed 26 freaking games.

Who gives a flying hoot about those numbers? They're irrelevant. The Sox were 68-30 before the ASG and 40-24 after the ASG. They had a great first half of the 2018 season, a decent 2d half, and a terrific postseason in which they went 11-3 against the best teams in MLB.

Very interesting. Another left-right-left-right lineup, which I like.

Yes, the Sox players do get scheduled days off. And what I don't understand about those days off is why they are questioned so severely on this thread. As I've already said, what the Braves are doing seems to work for them, but what Cora does for the Sox has also worked. In contrast to four different Braves players playing all of 117 games to date, here are the games played for the most successful Sox team in their 123 year history and pretty close to the most successful MLB team in history (the 2018 Red Sox)-- JDM 150 games Beni 148 JBJ 144 Mookie 136 Bogey 127 Nunez 127 Moreland 124 Devers 121 Holt 109 Leon 89 Swihart 82 Vazquez 80 So I would like moonslav or any of the carping critics of Alex Cora to explain how the Sox could be so successful without playing their best players every freaking game--in fact, far from every single game.

I think Chaim Bloom and the Sox will justifiably stay way from Wander Franco. In fact, to be perfectly honest, I'm fine with the Rays sorting this thing out. If he's innocent, they should keep him because he's a terrific ballplayer they've already invested in. If he's predatory, he should go to jail.

Given how close the two teams' winning percentages are--.525 for the Sox and .445 for the Nats--I think taking 2 of 3 is a reasonable expectation for the good guys. Right now the Sox have their best active roster in a long time-- Five decent starters (Paxton, Sale, Bello, Pivetta, and Crawford) plus a sixth, Houck, o/a 21 August, and at least seven decent relievers (Martin, Winck, Bernardino, Jansen, Murphy, Schreiber, and Whitlock). Bello might be tired, but no one else should be. In fact, quite the opposite. Also six decent lefty bats (Devers, Yoshida, Casas, Duran, Dugo, and Wright) and six decent righty bats (Turner, Duvall, Story, Refsnyder, Reyes, and Wong). So to me it's simply a matter of which Sox team shows up tonight at Nats Ballpark (which has good sight lines) at 7:05 tonight--the guys who can hit and pitch and even play defense, or the weak-hitting stumblebums we've seen too much of lately.

Boo yourself. I'll be honest and say I love the stats on the Braves players' games played. Also the question, "Why do our guys need a day off all the time?" Clearly, playing every dadgum day works for the Braves. So it's fair to ask, couldn't that work for the Sox as well? And my answer is that I believe that most MLB players could use extra days off because the regular season is such a grind--6 games a week for 6 months. But, more than that, I believe the manager should make that judgment. Bellhorn is absolutely right. Cora believes not only in resting guys, but in using his freaking bench. And to me it's hard to argue that his system has failed. The 2018 Sox not only had Boston Red Sox best regular season ever (in 123 seasons)--while regular resting players, even Mookie freaking Betts--they then beat the 100 win Yankees, 3 games to 1, in the ALDS, the 103 win Astros, 4 games to 1, in the ALCS, and the 92 win Dodgers, 4 games to 1, in the WS. And here are the regular season games played by those lazy, no good, badly managed 2018 Sox: JDM (DH), 150; Beni 148; JBJ 144; Betts 136; Bogey 136; Nunez 127; Moreland 124; Devers 121; Holt 109. Three years later, 2021, under a new GM/VP (Bloom) and an owner who now wanted nothing to do with high priced pitching, Cora took the 92 wins Sox (who literally did not have a closer for the 2021 postseason) to the ALCS after beating the 92 wins Yankees in the wild card and the 100 wins Rays in the ALDS (3 games to 1) before losing to the 95 wins Astros in the ALCS (4 games to 2). Last year the hard core Braves won 101 games in the regular season but couldn't get past the presumably soft core Phillies in the NLDS. My point is not that the Cora's right and the Braves are wrong, but that more than one system can work, especially if the players have bought into that system. And moonslav for once is full of it because he has provided no stats, just his opinion on resting players. When he's sure he's right, he piles on the stats. This time, nada.

Once more I have to day that no one reading this thread can think you guys have any hopes whatsoever for 2023. And I find that astounding because right now I think the Sox pitching looks better than 2021 and as good as 2019. As moonslav has pointed out, with the return of Sale, Whitlock, and Houck (now delayed until 21 August so he can start), Cora has good starters, long relievers, and short relievers. Of course there are concerns--Bello's possible fatigue, Sale's history of injuries, etc--but at least a whole bunch of these guys are present for duty. And, if the Story and Duvall of yesterday's game--combined with the Turner we've seen all season and the possibility that Reyes can hit (but I now have my doubts about Refsnyder)--the Sox just might have some good righty bats to go with all those lefty (Casas, Devers, Yoshida, Duran, Dugo) bats. Seriously, if I'm anywhere near right, shouldn't we pay just a little bit of attention to this year's team?

I'm pretty sure the team announced today that Houck will start. And I suspect the reason is to use 6 starters to keep from wearing them out during the current (started 4 Aug) 48 games with just 3 days off. I'm not expecting more injuries to Sox pitchers, but understand they are possible.