Maxbialystock

I'm not sure of that. I think he's just trying to keep it close to the edges. He does not believe he has good stuff. And maybe he doesn't. The other guy, Rodriguez, does seem to have good stuff.

I completely agree Rafaela overall is a plus defender, and that's kind of my point. As good as he is, he still leads the team in errors--one of which was simply lack of focus--and he still contributed to 4 unearned runs. I'm now thinking/claiming this lineup lacks focus in the field and at the plate. The rotation absolutely is focused and is pitching well beyond their usual capability. Combined, the 5 of them are getting paid $14M this year--less than the Sox are still paying Sale, who is pitching for the Braves.

I see the angst from last night's loss has carried over to today. Nasty comments and dire predications abound. I'm watching the Masters, which is my fav because it's gorgeous and competitive at the same time. The crowd at August National is massive and the azaleas are in full bloom. Tiger's 1 under after 2, despite on the 2d hole having to get out of the woods by reversing a club and swinging from the left side--a perfect 40 yard chip into the fairway. He will be lucky to make it through the first 2 rounds because of the walking required.

Meh. The primary value of any position player is whether he can hit--especially if he plays for the Red Sox. Second for a centerfielder is his range. And third is his arm. Ellsbury was an instant hit with the Sox because he could hit and score runs. He took some lousy routes early on, but got better. He had a weak arm--no problem. Then, primarily because of his hitting, especially in 2011 when he hit 32 dingers, he got that insane contract with the Yankees, I think $21/year for 7 years. JBJ was tons better than Ellsbury in CF when he replaced him in 2014, but he couldn't hit diddly, so for that entire season be bounced back and forth between Boston and Pawtucket. His peak salary was $11M in 2020.

Meh. There are tons of examples of players who have been good in the infield and in the outfield. I think the infield is tougher, so I also think going from the infield to the outfield can make sense--depending, of course, on whether said infielder can take good routes in the outfield. Mookie did it with ease. So did Robin Yount. So has Rafaela. And right now it looks like Duran is doing fine out there.

Well said--by you and Duran.

As I've said too many times already, Story was/is darn good at SS, but he could not prevent all the bonehead plays, leading to unearned runs, by the rest of the defense. Rafaela, for example, has been awfully good in CF, but he also dropped an easy pop fly. When that combined with Valdez's dropping a throw to 2b, the Sox ended up yielding 4 unearned runs on a grand slam that never should have happened. The Sox lost 2-1 on 2 unearned runs caused by Devers misplay of a high hopper. Abreu let a slow roller got through his legs in RF, which advance 2 runners to 2b and 3b--allowed another unearned run.

Absolutely fascinating game thread, which tells us a lot about what we want to talk about. For starters, it's clear success is just boring. It certainly lacks angst. When the Sox win, the game thread is--and I'm exaggerating--just 2 or 3 pages. Ho hum. Or, better still, "ho hum, and I'll bet it doesn't last." Now the Sox have lost their 2d in a row in a series--against the ascendant Orioles--regarded as an early indicator of just how good the 7-3 Sox were going into this series. And the game thread is at 18 pages with no end in sight. I'm as concerned as anyone else. The two starters, Bello and Crawford, went 5.1 and 5 innings and between them gave up 1 earned run in 10.1 innings. So the rotation still looks awfully good. But the bullpen and the porous defense gave up 6 runs in the first game and 7 in the second. And the offense scored just 1 run in the first game. In the second, an excellent 5 runs in the first 5 innings, but nothing thereafter. Tonight the Orioles go for a sweep with Rodriguez, who has 2 starts and given up 3 earned runs in 12.1 innings and has endured zero unearned runs. Whitlock also has 2 starts and just 1 ER in 9.1 innings. Weissert got the loss in the 1st game in which the Angels scored 2 unearned runs from a Devers error and won, 2-1.

Interesting take. I think it's Cora's job to find out if that's an issue. It's entirely possible he knows already and has decided that it's up to the player to adjust.

All good of course. But right now I'm leaning toward the terribles, the naysayers, the talksoxers who want to fire John Henry and/or anyone else at fault for assembling a lineup that can't field or hit much. The Sox were 7-3 out West and are 0-2 at home. The Orioles are supposed to be good this year because they made it to the playoffs last year with a lot of good young players. But yesterday and tonight were simply embarrassing.

Tell us what you really think about our beloved owner.

I'm afraid so because I finally buy moonslav's dictum that a weak defense, including bad plays that aren't errors, undercuts the pitching.

Agreed. Their collective paycheck is $14M, less than Jansen's $16M. So maybe JH has a point. We'll just have to wait and see. However, the team as a whole, despite still being over .500, is worrisome. I think the bullpen will be OK, tonight notwithstanding, but the lineup is struggling at the plate and especially in the field.

Amazing, no? Crawford went 5 with 0 runs to keep things going. The rotation is the primary reason why the Sox have a winning record--7-5. And 3 of those losses were in games which the Sox lost 1-0, 2-1 (both LA runs were unearned), and 4-3 (when the Sox gave up 1 run in regulation). And 1 of the wins was when the staff (Pivetta went just 5 innings) pitched a 1-0 shutout. Tonight was appalling, given the 5-0 lead after 5. Campbell came in with a 2.08 ERA and in just 8 pitches the Orioles had 2 runs in, a man on first, and nobody out in just 8 pitches. Then Martin got sabotaged by Wong, but he also had 2 WP's, a BB, and that 3 run dinger on a fastball pretty doggone close to dead center of the strike zone. That was with 2 outs and on a 1 and 2 count.

Meh. I should have realized you meant that. However, now that I do understand-- Before tonight just 7 of 30 MLB teams had 5 or more quality starts. The Sox have 4, which ties them for 8th best.

Could be right. To me it's astounding the rotation has been so good--including Crawford's 5 shutout innings tonight--and the rest of the team so absolutely terrible. Wong is supposed to be our best defensive catcher but tonight he had a passed ball and batter interference.

Not really. He threw 1 strike to McGuire and still struck him out. Knuckle curve was working good.

Finally, something I can agree with. I'll bet you a million bucks no MLB team in the last 50 years has averaged 6 inning starts over 162 games. My goodness, these days a 9 inning start gets headlines. Have you never read the frequent comments/stats from moonslav and others about how difficult it is to fact a lineup for the 3d freaking time? And wasn't it the Dodgers manager who pulled his starter who had been brilliant--I think in the NLCS or the WS--for six innings simply because he was terrified of letting him face that lineup a 3d time? He said after the game he made that decision before the game started!!!!

They don't have the salaries--isn't that what you mean? They need Mookie for $350M, right? How about Bogey for $280M? All we need to lead the AL East again? The rotation of Bello, Pivetta, Crawford, Whitlock, and Houck has now made 12 starts and I think pitched at least 5 innings in every start with a collective ERA below 2.00. But they can't possibly be good because their collective salary is about $14M.

FWIW, 2 of the 7 Orioles runs are unearned. Correction: the box score now say 1 unearned run. To me griping that Crawford was lousy because he pitched 5 shutout innings is just stupid. When he left the game the Sox were leading 5-0. Yes, Campbell struggled--the Orioles had 2 runs in and a man on first in his first 8 pitches, partly helped by O'Neill's error. This was a collective collapse despite decent hitting and an excellent start by Crawford.

You sure about that? I just looked at the team stats for MLB pitching and honed in on the "quality starts," which are defined as 6 or more innings and 3 or fewer runs. These, in order from the best team ERA to the 7th best ERA, are those teams quality starts-- Sox 4 Yankees 4 Guardians 3 Royals 8 Orioles 6 Tiger 2 Mets 2 Care to revise your theory that only quality starts will do? Also, the Sox lost two of the quality starts, 1 by Pivetta (Sox lost 1-0), and 1 by Crawford (Sox lost 4-3 in extra innings).

I guess I need to remind you too. The Orioles had 2 runs in and a man on 1b in the first 8 pitches.

Coming into this game Campbell has pitched 4.1 innings in 5 games with 1 run and an ERA of 2.08. In just 8 pitches the Orioles have 2 runs in, a man on 1b, and no one out. All 3 hits were singles. Plus the error by O'Neill put first two batters on 2d and 3d. Nevertheless, both runs were earned because of what followed. You seem to think Cora could have done something inside those 8 pitches. If so, you are nuts.

Completely agree. But virtually the entirely of the RSN--and certainly Talksox--has already decided that none of the them will do well. That's what I don't understand.

Top 5 in pitching, Top 10 in baserunning, middle of 5-10 in batting, and near the bottom of defense!!!!!????? The Sox can't possibly win another game. I had no idea you were so pessimistic.