Maxbialystock

Of course you will. That's what talksox is all about--venting when the Sox lose a game. You are attacking one of the positive forces on this team. Granted, he doesn't meet your expectations, but he's doing a whale of a lot better than the pitching staff. This morning, August 24, 127 games into the season, the Sox are ranked 5th in runs scored, which really should be 4th because they are just 7 runs behind the Dodgers who have played 2 more games (and the Sox average 5 runs per game). And their team OPS is .767, ranked 3d. Oh, and out of 13 x 30 = 390 MLB lineup players, Devers OPS, .947, is ranked 6th. And his total bases, 252, are tied for 10th. The Sox team ERA, meanwhile, is ranked 21st in MLB, which means they are just too awful to discuss. Going after Devers is so much more fun. Nevertheless, I do credit you for starting a good discussion on RISP hitting, the lineup, etc.--and the reminder that, unlike Mookie and some of the Sox greats in the past, Devers has no similar bat to afford him some protection.

He still has the highest OPS on the team, the most rbi's (77 to Duran's 64), the 2d most runs scored, the 2d most total bases, the most dingers, the 2d most triples--true--and the most BB's. And he has done all that with a bad shoulder that Cora has commented on. He rarely DH's and has played the 3d most games, 114, after Duran and Rafaela. Get off his back.

The Sox lost, 12-2, because tonight the Diamondbacks had better pitching and better hitting. The Diamonds had a lot of lefty bats in their lineup and didn't need the green monster--at least, not until the 7th when righty bat Suarez got the grand slam off of righty pitcher Winckowski. Devers, Yohsida, Jansen, Hamilton, and Rafaela all went hitless for the Sox. Ref had one hit, but when he had the bases loaded, he struck out on 3 pitches. That kind of night.

Singling out anyone tonight is sheer folly. The Sox lost, 12-2. Devers has had a bad August so far, OPS .767 and just 7 rbi's. Last month his OPS was 1.132 with 24 rbi's. In June, 1.015 OPS and 19 rbi's. In May, .919 OPS and 19 rbi's. Are you with me, sweetheart?

Nice try but . . . You keep forgetting that extra inning game when the Seattle manager decided to pitch to Devers in the bottom of the 10 with a man on 2b and no one out. He did so, I argued, because he had sent a lefty pitcher in. No good, you and everyone else argued. Why? Because Devers was one of the greatest hitters in MLB, etc, etc and should have been given an intentional walk, which would then have had the Mariners lefty pitching to a righty, Refsnyder.

My theory, only that, is that historically the Sox teams have had a lot of good righty bats, largely, I think, because of the green monster in left field. In 2004 they had Manny, Tek, Bellhorn, Millar, and Youk. In 2007 Manny again, Lowell, Youk, Pedey, and Tek. In 2013 Pedey, Victorino, Napoli, and Saltalamacchia--plus Bogey in the postseason. In 2018 Mookie, JDM, Bogey, and Pearce. This year it's mostly O'Neill and Ref, who have played 84 and 79 games--far fewer than Duran's 124 and Devers' 113.

You're an idiot. Breslow sabotaged this team--not intentionally, of course--by dumping Sale to the Braves while still paying him $17M and picking up Giolito for $19M x 2 years, one of which is already down the drain. He also failed to bring in any real bullpen help. The heart of the Sox lineup, which has made a winning season possible, was here when Breslow arrived: Duran, Abreu, Casas, Abreu, Devers, Wong, Rafaela, Hamilton, Yoshida. And for awhile the rotation of Houck, Crawford, Pivetta, Whitlock, and Bello--all of whom were here before Breslow--was also doing pretty good. To Breslow's credit, he insisted on a new pitching coach, and Bailey has been pretty good. Also in his defense is that the owner has been reluctant to support significant investments in pitching, largely because he was snake bit by the huge David Price and Chris Sale contracts. Cora is a big reason why the Sox have a winning record this year. He managed the best Sox team, 2018, in Sox history. And 3 years later with Betts, Benintendi, JBJ, Price, Kimbel, et al, gone--and Sale on the IL--Cora managed that team to the ALCS. In comparison, the 2016 and 2017 Sox teams, with a lot more talent, won the AL East both seasons but were killed in the ALDS, 3 games to none, both times. That was with Farrell as manager.

Disagree. I missed the 6th because I was on an errand, but after that bad 1st, he was fine for innings 2-5. Then came that soft grounder which turned into a hit and an error by Bello. In his 3 previous starts in August, Bello pitched 4.2, 6, and 6 innings against KC, Texas, and Baltimore, and gave up 3, 1, and 1 runs. Then Winck comes in and gives up 4 runs in the 7th. This was a good night for the hitters to be off.

I'm shocked. I thought he made it up, but the Sox espn site says exactly what Fred Lynn said. Third time for Duran and Abreu, who both doubled first time out. Ground out and pop up. Nelson has our guys mesmerized. He throws that straight up fastball with impunity. The younger guys--Duran, Abreu, and Casas have all 4 hits. Devers, Ref, and Yoshida have none.

Bello kind of reminds of E-Rod, except that, quite frankly, I vastly prefer Bello. He actually doesn't mind covering 1b on grounders to the right side. But both throw a fair amount of fastballs and both have pretty good changeups. Yes, I know E-Rod's a lefty. 4 straight scoreless innings. One more and Bello has a quality start. I don't much like Jansen, but I think he's a pretty good catcher. I liked McGuire too, but he was getting kind of chubby.

Our Sox look as though they've never faced a fast-baller before. Jansen just K'd--again.

Brilliant!

Long, long ago there was an expression--"muscle bound." To me that describes O'Neill, who looks far more like a weightlifter than a baseball player.

As far as I know--and I don't know much--Bello is the only Sox pitcher with a good enough changeup to actually use it.

Those first two hits were partly on Bailey or whoever called the pitches. Both singles were off sinker/fastballs, which Arizona was looking for and swung on the first pitch both times. Then suddenly it was time to mix it up, but without having thrown any sliders or especially changeups. So batter #3 was walked--bases loaded, no one out. Then came the 2d walk and a run because Bello is fully capable of getting an 0-2 count and then frittering it away. Finally, he got serious and got 3 straight outs, one of which drove in run #2. Exactly the same thing happened in the bottom of the first--back to back doubles by Duran and Abreu off of fastballs. But Nelson got lucky when Casas lined out. Then the weak ground outs by Devers on the first pitch and Ref on the second pitch. Bello straightened up in the 2d and 3d, and the Sox continued to look weak at the plate in the 2d and 3d, especially Ref striking out on 3 pitches with the bases full.

Bats first, gloves second. Exceptions now and then at SS/CF, but by far the longest serving SS in the JH era has been the good bat, Bogaerts. Which reminds me. Duran has pretty good range and excellent DWAR (CF and LF), but his primary asset is his freaking offense--hitting and baserunning (which includes extra doubles and extra triples). To me it is criminal to put his range in left field at Fenway Park, and the next time Cora does it I'm bringing charges, probably in Federal District Court.

No disagreement on 2025. I read your post on the other thread and commended you. But my point is that 1) I trust Cora; and 2) Cora has used Rafaela at SS a lot--I think because of his range and arm. But I'm sure you're right about the errors and the missed double plays (which didn't count as errors). Thus tonight in yet another important game, righty bat Rafaela is back at SS against a good righty starter, Nelson. The other two righty bats are Ref in LF and Jansen catching.

The minors are filled with good field no hit infielders--and outfielders, for that matter. The best thing any MLB team can do for their defense is to accumulate good pitchers. Thus are pitchers exactly 1/2 of every MLB roster. And the job one for the lineup players--the other 1/2 of the roster--is to score runs. Good defense can definitely help, but it is 3d most important and well behind pitching and hitting. As for the 2024 Sox, I guess you've forgotten that Breslow already had Story, who is pretty darn good on defense--just not healthy. Rafaela has good range and a good arm, but is hampered by having to play both CF and SS, often in the same freaking game. So he is error prone.

Good stuff. Thanks.

I've been harping all season for righty bats and agree O'Neill is probably gone after this season. But I also agree the Sox need not add any big bats this winter.

I like Casas, and goodness knows the Sox haven't often had a good bat at 1b. Youk was. But the real point--just as you say--is that 1b is the easiest of the infield positions. Thus Youk, a thirdbaseman, and thus Napoli, a catcher. This year Wong has played 1b. And Devers is clearly in that mold when the time comes. The point for now is that Devers is not a big liability defensively at 3b, and he is having a career year at the plate. Casas best position might be DH, but for now that's Yoshida.

All out commitment to defense at 2b and SS is horsehockey. Bats first, gloves second at all positions. Thus did Bogaerts last 10 freaking seasons with the Sox. Pedey was in fact a good defensive secondbaseman, but he lasted because he could hit. The intent with Story was to get a good defensive SS/2b, which he is, who could also hit, which he hasn't. Plus he's played just 145 games in 3 seasons. The best defense is a good pitching staff, and that's what the Sox need to invest in.

Too bad it's me saying this, but I think you've made a heckuva point, especially that brilliant phrase, "temporary All-Star arm." That's Sale, Price, Beckett, Lackey, and a whole bunch of great arms who didn't pitch for the Sox. There are of course significant exceptions--like Verlander--but that's the point: they are exceptions and absolutely not the rule. I also like your notion that there is strength in numbers: that is, acquire pitching depth. I think that is exactly what has happen this season to the Sox lineup players, who constitute half the team. I call them the no-names, which really means underpaid. Casas, Wong, Abreu, Hamilton, and Duran are all @ $750K. Rafaela is $1.25M. That's 2/3 of the Sox starting lineup for $6M. The two big righty bats, Ref and O'Neill, are @ $1.85M and $5.85M. Lurking @ Worcester are Mayer, Teel, Anthony, and Campbell. Plus let's not forget that DFA'd Smith and McGuire definitely contributed to this Sox team. I hasten to add that I think Devers ($30M) and Yoshida ($18.6M) are pretty close to earning their pay, but they are just two of 9. The rotation started out like a house afire, and then stumbled badly after the ASG, but I think Houck, Bello, Crawford, Pivetta, and Criswell are right now borderline adequate. Including Pivetta @ $7.5M and Bello at $1.2M, their combined salaries are around $11.5M. And their WAR's are, in the same order, 3.4, 0.8, 1.6, 1.0, and 0.0. Plus we also can't forget the failed (so far) investments of Giolito ($38M for 2 years, which are now 1), Story ($22M x 6 years?), and of course Sale, whom the Sox are paying $17M so he can star for the Braves. That's a whole lot of money for zippo performance.

Next year, fine, Rafaela in CF. But this year his quickness and arm make him our best defensive SS--see yesterday's out from deep in the hole. When will you ever agree that being fast afoot is actually an asset for a centerfielder? I'm looking at the ESPN listing of MLB centerfielders' DWAR's and Duran's is second best at +1.9. To me it is criminal to put Duran with all that speed in freaking left field, especially at Fenway Park. Think Manny Ramirez or, better still, Ted Williams.

Don't forget tomorrow's game thread.