Maxbialystock

Oh, come on. We fans can afford to hit the panic button, but shame on any manager who says, "I just read on talksox that some guy named maxbialystock thinks the last 4 games are the end of life as we know it and I completely agree with him (or it)." In fact, this entire season has been one of ups and downs and more surprises than we can count. I'm over-reacting--or at least I hope it's over-reacting--to these last 4 games because the month prior was so terrific. And Cora has every right to emphasize the good aspects of this team. A good battle captain--and Cora has proved to be just that--should never take counsel of his fears.

Allow me, then, to speak up for us guys in a complete panic. This 2024 Sox team has relied heavily on their pitching, despite the propensity of the lineup to commit errors and cause the Sox to lead MLB in unearned runs. But these last 4 games have made it quite clear the bullpen stinks. Even Jansen, our $16M closer, blew one save and then gave up 3 runs in the next game. Crawford, our 2d best starter, just gave up 5 dingers and 6 runs in his last start, and last night our ace Houck gave up 4 runs in the 3d inning. Who's left? Bello and Pivetta, both of whom have been wildly inconsistent this season. Oh, and Criswell. Wait, there's more. For at least 2 months the Sox team ERA was the best in MLB. Then it dropped to 5th, which was still pretty good. Now it's 10th, with no bottom in sight. And let's not forget that in the past the Sox have always, always led with their hitting and run-scoring. Just 3 seasons ago, 2021, the Sox team ERA, 4.26, was ranked 15th. So what got the Sox into the postseason was the lineup/hitting, which was ranked 3d in MLB in runs scored. This year the Sox are ranked 11th in runs scored, not nearly good enough to compensate for a pitching staff which now seems to be in disarray.

Meh. We always have moonslav reminding us of the potential long term value of guys like Grissom. To me there is no way, no how Grissom can make up for the loss of Sale at exactly the wrong time--a major misread by Breslow. Moreover, because Sale was booted to Atlanta, Breslow went out at got Giolito for $38M, half of which is already down the drain. As for Vazquez, I liked him when they brought him up because of that great arm and release for nailing guys trying to steal 2b. Over time, I decided he was just stupid, but he hung on because for a while it looked like he could hit. I loved when Vazquez was traded away and am fine with Wong and McGuire--plus Teel at Portland.

Agree. The mistakes came before the season started. Breslow focused almost exclusively on the rotation--and screwed that up completely--and did little for the bullpen. He also got a decent righty bat, which we now see was not enough. Everyone's in an uproar about the 11th biggest payroll ($182M), which is in fact the lowest ranked payroll in the John Henry era. But we see now that, had Breslow been smarter and not committed $38M for Giolito, to say nothing of $17M so Sale could become the ace for the Braves, there was in fact enough money to improve the Sox. It was just misspent. It is no small irony that in return for the outrageous deal with the Braves, who basically have a no-cost ace, the Sox have Grissom, who is unavailable and probably not needed this year.

Pretty gutsy game by Houck. Horrible 3d, but 5 other scoreless innings. No lineup subs by Cora so far.

Funny. I was just looking at the box score and realized he has 2 freaking hits. My very bad. Houck out for the 6th--of course. There is almost no Sox bullpen.

Note the 5 run comment at the end. I checked earlier this season--5 runs has been the magic number of runs the Sox must score to win. And tonight that's the case once again.

Heckuva rally by the no-names. Way to go, guys. No help from Devers, Yoshida, or O'Neill of course. They're not playing for minimum wage, so they have nothing to prove. Just relax, enjoy the outing, and let the no-names do heavy lifting. Houck has 4 scoreless innings and one bloodbath, the 3d, yielding 4 runs.

I was being facetious about LA because of the 6 dingers in game 3. They used to have a lot of smog. Is that gone?

Up ahead are 3 vs Seattle and 3 vs the Yankees. The Sox could easily lose 12 straight and end their season in time to prevent any help from Breslow/JH.

The air was even thinner in LA. I think you got it on the first comment. Crawford and Houck could be tired.

Well, let's see. Bello was OK and Pivetta was excellent against the Dodgers. But our two best, Crawford and Houck, not so much. Crawford gave up 5 dingers, and so far Houck has given up 4 runs in 2.1 IP. Oh, and once again the Sox simply cannot hit a lefty pitcher. Plus the Dodgers proved the Sox have literally no bullpen. What's left? Defense! I don't think the Sox gave up any unearned runs in LA.

Really???!!!

I know what you mean. Sox split with the White Sox.

You have a faulty memory of 2019. Mine is that the Sox were paying top dollar--the biggest payroll in MLB--for a team that couldn't make the playoffs. In fact, most of the 2018 best Sox team ever players were on the 2019 team. The problem was the Sale and Price turned sour. Price stayed that way but was still paid $30M/year. Sale stayed that way basically until this year, by which point he had moved on to the Braves with the Sox paying his salary.

Thanks for starting the game thread. I agree with everyone who says the Sox need to win at least 2 of these Rockies games. Houck should give the Sox the edge, but of course Gomber is a lefty, so Cora is going with six righty bats-- Duran CF Ref LF Wong C Devers 3B O'Neill RF Yoshida DH Gonzalez 1b Rafaela CF Westbrook 2b Right now--as I keep whining about--the Sox bullpen stinks, and Jansen didn't come to Denver because of the altitude and how it energizes his atrial fib. So, unless Houck goes ape and pitches an 8 or 9 inning gem, the Sox probably need to score at least 5 runs.

Agree on your last statement, but don't agree Breslow helped--except for bringing in Bailey to be the pitching coach. To date Weissert's WAR is -0.5, Slaten's is +0.5, and I. Campbell's is -1.2. So those three are a net negative for the Sox pitching staff. And let's not forget that his big starter move was to dump Sale and pay the Braves $17M for taking him and to acquire Giolito, who has yet to pitch an inning for the Sox. So, when Criswell and Winck and Whitlock started this season, it was partly because of how Breslow botched Sale and Giolito. About my whining about the bullpen. I think you provided a spreadsheet less than a month ago that showed the bullpen was pretty darn good. So I'm wrong to whine so much now.

I'm probably guilty as charged on both points: what Breslow did and whether the bullpen was any good this season. Also, he can't be blamed (or applauded) for bringing in Jansen. On the other hand, except for bringing in pitching coach Bailey, his handling of the rotation last offseason was terrible. He booted Sale and gave the Braves $17M, and he signed Giolito for $38M for 2 years. He did bring in O'Neill, but that's about it for lineup players. Oh, wait. I forgot the Great Grissom kid who was pretty decent (OPS .792) in 41 games in 2022 but has stunk (OPS .520, WAR -1.2) in 46 games since.

Agree on Duran. My bad. Also disagree with my tirade about signing relief pitchers. If Breslow gets starters, one or more current starters can go back to the bullpen. Besides, I know nothing about who's available out there.

Ahem. I'd say the Dodger series demonstrated pretty convincingly that by far the biggest weakness of this Sox team is the bullpen. So I'm less sure than you that 2 starters solve all problems. I've been harping on getting a good righty bat, but maybe what the Sox really need is a hitting/batting coach as good as their pitching coach. Someone who can teach our lefty batters how not to look like complete idiots when they face lefty pitchders. To me these OPS's vs lefty pitchers are inexcusable: Duran .678; Devers .644; Yoshida .518; Abreu .449. I just took a peak at Philly's 2 best lefty bats and these are their OPS's vs lefties: Schwarber .961; Harper .992.

I think of myself as upbeat, but I too have griped on talksox. In fact, that's one of its great values because most of us want/need to vent when we are frustrated by what we've just seen. Apparently, the Sox fans who pay big bucks to watch games at antiquated Fenway Park are also grumbling. Before covid, the Sox were drawing 36K or so per game. Now it's 32K for 3 straight seasons, including this one.

Agree. The simple fact is that the Sox had the lead, 1-0, in the 8th inning Friday night when Bernardino came in and gave it at away and then some. Then Jansen blew the save in the 9th Saturday night. As it turned out, he also blew a possible win last night when he gave up 3 runs in the 8th and the Sox closed it to 9-6 in the 9th inning. Meanwhile our brand new CBO did absolutely nothing to improve the bullpen last offseason. He did dump starter Sale, who now stars for the Braves and is paid by the Sox--go figure that one out because I sure can't--and did pick up Giolito, who will somehow have to earn the $38M he's getting for 2 seasons in 1 season.

Oh, stop it. Just stop it. You are ignoring the fact that as early as 2017 there were signs his elbow/arm was having problems near the end of the season. That all finally came to a head in late 2019, which led to TJ surgery in 2020. And the key point there is that for most pitchers TJ surgery is a new start. However, in Sale's case he missed not only all of 2020, but practically all of 2021--and then lost most of 2022 because of the freak bicycle accident. So Sale only really "used" that new left elbow last season, and that's when we saw some positive signs that he was close to the old Sale, but wisely taking a little off the heater and also adding a cut fastball to go with the slider and changeup. I personally was looking forward to the new Sale this season. Also don't forget that Sale is the ultimate professional in terms of staying in shape and staying focused about his job and about what he is doing in the game. You could be right about "unprecedented," but this was not a miracle. It was Sale being Sale helped by the effects of a surgery that has helped literally hundreds (thousands?) of other pitchers.

He's a righty bat with the 4th most total bases on the Sox and the 2d best OPS. Of course he's an asset, especially when our best hitter, Devers, struggles against lefties.

It looks horrible because it is horrible. Sale is brilliant this year, and the Sox are paying him to pitch for the Braves. That by itself is catastrophic. Grissom might help the Sox someday, but he will never be able to do what Sale is doing right now. Plus I'd rather have Story or Mayer at 2b than Grissom.