Kimmi
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Everything posted by Kimmi
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Let me also add that Ben gets kudos for trading for Miley. What's he costing us next year? 6 million for 2.6 WAR?
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Let me also add that the contracts that pitchers are getting this offseason make picking up Clay's option even more of a no brainer. Additionally, this is exactly why Porcello was extended before being allowed to hit free agency. Of course he pitched horribly last year, but if he been a near 3 WAR pitcher like he was the previous season, his contract would look really good right now. Personally, I still expect him to be well worth his contract over the next 4 years.
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I don't disagree with that, but the difference in money between the two is enormous. It's not like Clay was given a multi-year deal @ $18 million per year. The risk/reward is greater for Price than it is for Clay.
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I can tell you right now that the vote will be in favor of Dombrowski, by an overwhelming margin. I am not unhappy with the moves that Dombrowski has made to date, despite being critical of the package given up for Kimbrel and not liking the contract given to Price. I am very happy to have both players on the team, and I am very optimistic about the Sox' playoff chances this year. I think Dombrowski's transactions will have a far greater short term impact on the team, in a positive way, than Ben's did, 2013 aside. We'll have to wait and see what else Dombrowski does both this offseason and in the next couple of years to see what the long term impact will be. For Dombrowski, so far so good.
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What I find really odd is how many people feel that $217 million is not an overpay for Price, but Buchholz is not worth retaining at $13 mil. I think many people's opinions of what is an overpay and what isn't is based on whether they like the player or not.
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I agree with this. And I also stated in the other thread how I think Price carries a lot of value with his intangibles as well, which we can't put a price tag on. Regardless, I'm not going to be convinced that his contract is not an overpay.
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Dombrowski set that market by paying $30 million more than the next highest offer. The Dbacks followed suit by paying Greinke an extra year and about $30 million more than the next highest offer. That makes both contracts an overpays, IMO. To me, the overpay is not so much in the AAV, but more in the number of years. A 5 year contract @ $31 mil per would be about right. I could even see 6 years, which would still be a year too long, because he's a premium pitcher. Seven years is an overpay.
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Everyone agrees that we had the chips to trade, and that we needed to use them to acquire top rate pitching. Trading for Kimbrel was a GREAT idea. Giving up the package for him that we did was not.
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I would like to say that I very much enjoyed reading the articles about how the negotiations with Price went down and the articles about his press conference yesterday. In addition to being one of the best pitchers in the game, everything that I've read about him says that he is top notch when it comes to his leadership, his work ethic, his competitiveness, his baseball smarts, and being a good teammate and clubhouse presence. Those intangibles carry a lot of value along with his pitching ability.
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I posted a few days ago that I didn't think there was any way that Price would opt out of his contract at age 33. After seeing the Greinke contract, I have changed my mind. Apparently, there are some GMs who are willing to give 5-6 year mega contracts, plus give up a draft pick, to pitchers who 32-33 years old.
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I have no delusion that ticket prices will go down. I also have no problem with the Sox having a payroll close to the luxury tax limit every year. In fact, I appreciate that Henry is willing to have a payroll that high, and he should. That said, I do not agree with the idea that Henry should spend whatever the fans think he should spend because Henry can afford it and it's not their money.
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They got the memo. Everyone knows how great the risk is in signing aging pitchers to large contracts.
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I don't know how he's been in years past, but since I've been here, Jacko has been a good poster when he wants to be. You just have to remember that he's a Yankees fan and just can't help himself sometimes. It's the nature of the beast.
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Price is still an overpay. Greinke is just more of an overpay. Price's contract doesn't look as insane when compared to Greinke's, but it's still insane.
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The Cubs are set for the long haul. Gotta love Theo.
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That is certainly fair enough. That said, if Ben had the chance and open checkbook that Dombrowski has, I am confident that the team he would have assembled would be a playoff contender this season.
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Some would even call it an enigma.
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Spot on post. They weren't supposed to be a great rotation. They were supposed to be decent enough to keep the vaunted offense in most of the games. They underperformed, as did the vaunted offense.
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Where's the fun in that?
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Weren't you just as glad to get rid of Theo, aka "Inepstein" as you are to be rid of Cherington?
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If the Red Sox win the WS within the next few years, or even just make the playoffs, you can bet that people are going to credit Dombrowski for all of the big and bold moves that he has made, and rightly so. However, those moves would be largely impossible right now if Cherington (and Theo) did not stock this team with a young, cost-controlled core of players and a deep farm system. This is still largely Cherington's team.
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Gotta love Theo.
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Thank you.
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I can understand people being frustrated or angry about the last place finishes, but at least give credit where credit is due.
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I think Ben believes in that philosphy about not signing older pitchers to big contracts also, to a certain extent. As I've said before, I think Ben's and Theo's philosophy in building francises is spot on. I have no doubt that Dombrowski was brought in with the idea of changing the approach. Henry was tired of finishing in last place, no doubt. Dombrowski is only able to do what he has done because of the strong farm system and young cost-controlled players that Ben left him.
