Hitch

Absolute nonsense. He won us a championship with brilliant signings. He left one of the best farms in baseball. Did he make some awful decisions? Sure. Did he have flaws? Absolutely. But to look back on what he did for our farm and the championship and call him awful smacks of a man utterly desperate to attack Ben for whatever reason, whenever possible. Having been a reader of this board for several years you seem to have a weird need to to say how terrible he was at every opportunity. When I first started reading the board there were personal arguments to wade through day in day out around the time of Fred. I sometimes wonder if there's hangover to that in people's need to constantly state a hyperbolic opinion on a matter. And as if to prove the point... Sure, nobody would want 5 championships every 10 years. Drivel.

I realise this, however, you are now using his health issues as another reason we should have traded him. Which is just a bit s***, if you ask me.

Yeah, I'm feeling a tad pessimistic about Price too. Best case scenario - he comes back pitches out of his skin for this and next season. Opts out to get a longer contract elsewhere.

Can you please stop using Holt's head issues as a reason to keep saying we should have traded him? Leaving aside the fact it's ridiculous, have some decorum man.

What an absolute nonsense of a statement.

I think Pal is posting out the laughable irony of you asking 'who cares?' while you post about the topic.

I have absolutely no confidence in us in very tight games. Very rarely do I feel we will come through and nick/grind out the win. I've no idea if the numbers back that up(I'm too lazy to check), it's just the over-riding feeling I get watching us every time it's a close/one run game.

The issue is with Liverpool. We are a mile behind the other teams in terms of finances and appeal. We have thrown plenty of money around the last 4 years. Plenty. And wasted it. We have now had a clear out of the dead wood. Which was badly needed. What top level players do you think we could have got? Even if we had spent more? FSG have made many mistakes but they have put the club on an incredibly solid footing.

I'm guessing Red Scouser started this thread because he isn't overly happy with how FSG (Henry) is running Liverpool. As a Liverpool fan I can confirm it's been a bumpy old ride under this ownership. They saved the club from administration which we should all, always be thankful for(although lots aren't!). We did come close to the title for the first time in decades but that was down to having one of the very best players in the world run into a vein of form not seen before or since. The biggest grumble with Henry for the dissenters in the Liverpool crowd is that we don't spend much money on the team. In fact the club seems to make money on transfers most of the time and people are fed up that the money isn't being re-invested. The fact we have just built a whole new stand worth a lot of money seems to have escaped their attention but the grumbles are getting louder. They certainly aren't throwing cash around. As for success - we are where we were when they bought us. They made A LOT of stupid mistakes early doors just because they didn't understand football. We haven't moved forward much but we do have one of the best managers in the world at the helm at least. Word is, they are selling out a large share of the ownership to a Chinese investment firm.

Am I misreading this...? You're saying it's easier for a pitcher after going behind 1-0 in the count, rather than being in front 0-1?

If Pomeranz is for real and the breakout can be sustained, we have pulled off a fantastic trade!

I accept there is an early buyers charge. I don't accept Beane really thought he could get a hugely rated talent for a few months rental of an injury prone 36 year old pitcher. He's not getting anywhere close to that and everyone knows it.

Thanks for the link. Interesting. I don't think even Beane could have asked for that trade. Not in any serious way of thinking it had a shot.

I worded my post badly. I was speaking in the abstract, rather than the literal. He had given two players on the opposite end of the spectrum and I was saying it is never an either/or choice to that extreme. I did see what Atlanta wanted and they have been routinely mocked for it from all quarters. That's Atlanta. Not the entire league. Although I agree the market isn't great at the moment for starting pitchers. But did us a favour? Give me a break. It might turn out to be a great trade for us. It might turn out a great trade for them. But nobody sound of mind could POSSIBLY make the argument they did us a favour. Do you have the quotes or links to DD saying that Hill and Pomeranz were literally the only two pitchers available? And the same for Oakland wanting Espinoza for Hill? It's not that I don't believe you but I'd like to see them for myself as I find that very hard to believe, even for Beane. Let me just reiterate again, I don't hate the trade. I was just saying why I think there are sound reasons to worry about this trade because the people who are, were being treated a little like they were anti-win and other such horseshit, about 20 pages ago when I made the post. Overall I'm on the side of the trade, but there are very big risks that come with it.

Well no, but lets not pretend the only options were just Hill or Pomeranz. I haven't read the rest of the thread yet but I'm sure people who have their opinions will have made them available. I was just saying I can understand why people are upset. The kid is a very highly rated and there are plenty of risks with the trade. Either way, I'm glad we made a move. And hopefully what we've seen this year is the real deal....

Possibly. My point is, I don't think it had to be Espinoza. Or, I should clarify, I think that's what some people's opinion is. I'm a little disappointed with the trade as it really is far from sure we have our worthwhile starter for Espinoza. I'm not against giving the kid up. If we got the right guy for the kid remains to be seen, however. But I'm certainly glad DD is making moves. Like UN said earlier, DD rarely comes down on the wrong side of these things so I have some optimism too.

This will definitely be tedious.

Come on, that's unfair on people and you know it. They didn't mind prospects being traded(they knew we'd have to suffer some pain to sort the pitching), but they didn't want Espinoza traded.

I can see why plenty of people are worried/upset about the trade. The kid looks like he has a very bright future ahead of him, and Pomernaz comes with so much uncertainty. That said, we all knew the pitching needed major help. The club is purring on offence and league leading in lots of ways but we are still 2 games out of first and sometimes feel like we are just hanging on in there. If the Pomeranz of this season is the real deal and he doesn't wear down through the extra work load, this is a great trade. But it's a big 'if'. As always, only time will tell if this is a great/good/middling/bad/WTF was you thinking? trade.

Not just Bradley's. Hanley took to laughing on two separate occasions at how bad the calls were on him. Some of them weren't even close last night.

Well yes we will always have variables but getting actual strikes right should be something they get right at the very least.

Are you actually comparing a proper and correct strike zone with automated 3rd Base coaches? Holy Jesus. At its very core a game/sport should be fair and just and everyone playing by the same rules. Skill and human error should always play out within the game but the rules by which everyone are playing should be exact for every one.

Exactly this. It's not one bad trip through the rotation. Our pitching has has been dodgy since the season started.

Hence my worrying about his health. I do hope he's bald otherwise it will have been an ever painful experience, these past couple of months.

That's why I said there are outliers. They happen of course. Jesus, you can do your ACL playing a round of golf. Which is basically a brisk walk for angry people. I'm not trying to play baseball down, in fact quite the opposite, but I would argue that it's major issues are with wear and tear with some impact injuries in there, which is reversed for other two sports mentioned. As I keep saying though, they are incomparable. All the sports are very tough on the body for differing reasons(in the main).