sk7326

K-rate was lower - but yeah quite good. WHIP over 1.00 for the first time. He'll be good - question is whether his best has already passed. It's a good acquisition - the only quibble has been price. I hope he does well. Funny thing was the higher wOBA and HRs coming at the league's worst home run park.

One good thing is that the "less sexy" starting market is very strong as well this year. Leake, Kazmir, possibly Fister (although more hoping there).

They are thinking both - they are loaded with young position talent - they know that a key pitcher could make things really pop. There are no serious needs in terms of positions.

Price has not been amazing in the postseason - but then he also had a save in the biggest spot of his life up to that point ... clutch is how you see it.

Are you sure? Price is plenty durable. He also has a solid history in the division. I also think it is a moot point about Greinke since the Dodgers will back up the truck and Greinke likes it there.

Nope, probably don't have the pieces anymore. Imagine if they did though. The Marlins MO is being cheap though - and perhaps Moncada and stuff gets them where they want.

No, they were pricey buys - so was Melancon (we gave the Astros a starting caliber SS! An injury plagued one but still). All of the guys were premium closers and the franchise management got all googly eyed over saves. It's that simple. The team's mistakes have not been "they went cheap on the bullpen". That is silly - bullpen performance is wildly volatile, and spending a ton on it is risky. It's that they did not churn - and internally they have dithered too much with their own pitchers instead of making early decisive calls on who can't start. They did that one time - with Papelbon - and it worked out. But trying to put Bard in the rotation, trying to squint hard and see starting in Allen Webster or Brandon Workman or Rubby De La Rosa. They have incorrectly hoped and prayed these guys developed a 3rd pitch instead of just converting them and letting them fly. Now this would not have worked at a 100% rate - that's what churn is for. But that's really all the Royals have done. Look at guys with at least one or two serious pitches and just said "close enough".

No need to think too much about what's next right now. I have been a Red Sox fan for 30 years. Enough to have some summahs ruined, enough to wonder whether they would ever win (just barely). David Ortiz is not the greatest Red Sox player I ever saw. He is not the best baseball player I ever saw. But nobody has given me more joy as a fan more often. Yes, clutchiness is a silly notion - and yes you can point out that Ortiz was borderline unplayable in the 2008 ALCS and that his miracle slam against Detroit was the only really positive thing he did in that entire series. But he was up a lot in some very special spots, and he delivered a lot - and while clutchy mcclutcherson might not have much of an intellectual framework, it sure as hell felt heroic when he came through. There have been a lot of great stars in Red Sox history - Ortiz has to be the unlikeliest. And his larger than lifeness and star power, like Tiant and like Pedro, is accented and welcome when you put it against the problematic racial history of the franchise, and that matters a lot (to me at least).

Exactly zero. I am all for that - I am all for dumping all these guys on cheapo Miami's doorstep and telling them "come on, you're not going to pay Jose Fernandez, let's be real". Even add Moncada. It's doing it for a closer who could improve the bullpen solidly if he is what he was 2-3 seasons ago, but could improve it less if he was the 2015 version.

A 20 year old who hit 15 HRs with solid defense in a full season league has the ceiling of a hell of a lot more than that. Margot got to AA in his Age 20 year with a solid offensive season and a tiny strikeout rate. I am happy to have Kimbrel. I am stunned that this is what a couple of high end prospects buys so little. I think UN's point is solid about being conservative in evaluating Dombrowski - I have not put this trade into the dustbin of history. Kimbrel could be special, and he probably will be solid. We know in Detroit Dombrowski was mandated to acquire as many guys the owner has heard of, cost be damned. It seems that is the approach here. It could work - one hopes the division goes the way of the mid-2000s AL Central to help out.

certainly it ended that way, especially with the way the rotation overextended them. The approach can fail, it also succeeds - if anything it meant they did not churn enough. I actually questioned the approach - not that you don't sign risky fireballers - it's just that you keep going. Some fail, you find more. Also developmentally the team has absolutely been far too conservative with making calls on their pitchers. Instead of looking at guys like Webster and instantly figure out they are bullpen fodder, continuing to dither. As always the question is not about the acquisiton but the price. And yes, I know the prospects could be blocked blah blah blah - but the prospect inventory for trade (unlike say John Henry's coffers) is finite. Kimbrel will be fine. And if they sign Price (and it makes sense to give him 6 years - both younger and better than Lester as a UFA) better still. Relievers bust more than starters (which makes sense since they lack things that would make them good starters - and of course the limited innings) and Kimbrel came off of his worst pro season. So there is some risk anyway. I hope it works out.

I am happy we've improved the inning we have tended to not be able to get to. I am happy finishing 4th for now there could be smart moves to improve a lot. i will praise those.

Right now the team spent a lot of prospect heft for probably 0.5-1 win ... 79-83 isn't too shabby

By spending the sort of package the Rangers used to get Hamels ... all right

It was difficult for Ben - because he kept trading for Proven Closers (for whatever reason) without noticing the underlying pitchers (and none of them were actually that good - although Melancon is a good reliever the Red Sox bailed on) ... instead of just getting pitchers and figuring it out. You look at teams who have won recently - and they found their 9th inning guy from the existing inventory. The Red Sox won a title with this - and the dumb luck that they were stuck with Koji who was brilliant. The best approach to a bullpen is churn and sheer numbers - that has not changed. I agree the bullpen needed help - but the cure and the price to get it seem very off kilter. Starting pitchers have been moved for less. (Hamels was moved for not much more for par exemple)

Nobody gets hurt by the option - worst case, it's not my money ... realistic range = mild overpay for mediocrity or a good pitcher at a robbery rate ...

The bullpen was a key element in 2014, 2013, 2012 and 2011 too ... let's not pretend this is something hip and new. And all of those title winners had "closers" who were not the team's original idea.

This trade is paying Maserati prices for a Camry - at a time when nobody is paying Camry prices for a Camry.

Harder to carefully manage a workload in the 8th - many of the highest leverage spots pop up there. Now if the other 5-6 relievers they sign or whatever can help, so be it. But bullpen performance has historically been very volatile, enough that signing particular names to big deals is riskier than other aspects of a team.

A closer does not make LOTS ... certainly not 2 premium prospect LOTS

It's not a salary cap - just a lifestyle choice. That said, this was too much for a single reliever - even a good one.

I am amazed you are making the "battle proven, 9th inning, grumble grumble" thing - I thought you were smarter than that. Wade Davis was a retread - so was Koji Uehara. They were just retreads who were either old or did not have the third pitch required to make a competent starter. Arms are proven by proving. Craig Breslow was a retread also. There was no real need for a proven closer - there is a need for a starter. Now, signing a starter via free agency was always available. But a trade puts you in play to get a younger, cheaper starter. Every free agent of any stripe outside of Jason Heyward, you are carrying significant "other side of the mountain" risk - but you knew that. I don't even care if Margot turned out to be a superstar - it is that a quality position prospect who is close to the bigs (like inside of 2 seasons) is worth more than any single reliever. If he was in a Chris Sale deal, then you shrug and say "that's the price". You seem to be thinking I am against trading prospects - heck no. I am against trading premium prospects for so little major league value.

No, he is replacing Koji - Kimbrel has no experience doing anything but three out - no baserunner 9th inning pitching. Koji goes to some sort of setup role, which is a bit more taxing for a dude his age. There are still four other relievers to land. And none of this exempts the exorbitant price paid to get Kimbrel. That cannot be separated from the acquisition. Apparently there was a "holy s***, we need a closer" movement afoot I did not read about being out of the Sports Hub/EEI range like I am. Who knew?

It's the sting of trading 4 players for Kimbrel. Getting Price for money is reasonable. Separate moves. Separate thoughts.

Price is fine. The moves are evaluated separately. One is a good move, one is a silly one. The bullpen did not improve that much since fixing the 9th inning a little doesn't help this team that much.