FredLynn

I think that they are BOTH valuable. Epstein wasted nearly a THIRD OF A BILLION DOLLARS in bad FA signings. Thats just too big a number to ignore. Yes, he did a good job with drafting guys, I admit that. And that IS valuable. But its not the ONLY THING that is involved in judging the performance of a GM.

FREE AGENTS Finds DH David Ortiz (2003, 1 year, $1.2 million) INF Bill Mueller (2002, 2 years, $4.5 million) RHP Keith Foulke (2004, 3 years, $20.2 million) LHP Hideki Okajima (2006, 2 years, $2.5 million) RHP Takashi Saito (2009, 1 year, $1.5 million) 3B Adrian Beltre (2010, 1 year, $9 million) RHP Alfredo Aceves (2011, I year, $650,000) Busts SS Edgar Renteria (2004, 4 years, $40 million) RHP Matt Clement (2004, 3 years, $25.8 million) SS Julio Lugo (2006, 4 years, $36 million) RHP Daisuke Matsuzaka (2006, 6 years, $52 million plus $51 million posting fee) RHP Brad Penny (2008, 1 year, $5 million) RHP John Smoltz (2009, 1 year, $5.5 million) RHP John Lackey (2009, 5 years, $82.5 million) OF Mike Cameron (2009, 2 years, $15.5 million) RHP Bobby Jenks (2 years, $12 million) I ran a quick raw dollar figure by adding up all the successes and failures of Epstein during his tenure. Successes cost his bosses: $39.55M Failures cost his bosses: $325.30M That is exactly why I think he was less than adequate for this organization. He WASTED nearly a third of a billion dollars, money that could have been spent on better players. His failures to successes ratio was nearly 10:1 in raw dollars. I could live with even a 50-50 ratio, but 10:1? Come on. There must be a guy who can use the budget a little better than that.

The smear campaign was launched because Francona had the cajones to say that he wasn't sure that the management had his back, that they were fully supportive. Later he admitted that the was never asked back and was, in essence, fired. That makes the ownership look bad. They struck back with the personal garbage that should never have been revealed. If Epstein leaves without issueing disparaging remarks about the ownership to the media, I think he will get away clean.

I gotta say that I lost a lot of respect for the guy-all of it, actually, when he pronounced that "The fans deserve a chance to see me go for the record" in terms of wins by a Sox pitcher. I thought this was a team game. This me me me attitude is responsible for us not making the playoffs this year.

Incidentally, after Aug 1 Beckett's ERA was 4.50 and Lester was at 4.08. That falloff needs to be addressed too.

I posted that I thought he would make a good CATCHER'S COACH, not a manager. Thats a long ways off, as PA stated.

I would not want to face that lineup-we led the league in both runs scored and OPS this year. But I sure wouldn't mind facing that pitching staff. Maybe you would get lucky and face Lackey or Wakefield or Miller.....or Beckett on a bad day. Maybe the new manager would bring in Albers or Jenks (yes, he has another year left on his contract) in the sixth. We finished NINTH in overall ERA this year. The problem is PITCHING PITCHING PITCHING....and clubhouse chemistry.

HAHAHAHA Entering the forum with a splash, eh Muggah? I think that the new GM is not going to grant Wakefield and Varitek charter membership in the "good 'ol boy network". The handwriting is on the wall for those two. Brady posted that Varitek could be given a three month contract then be made into a coach; that seems reasonable to me. Historically he has been decent, even good, for the first few months, before his age becomes a factor. Lavarnway is probably not quite ready yet, and I don't really see a catcher anywhere that can help us from outside the organization. And Varitek, for all his shortcomings as a catcher nowadays, would probably make a very good catcher's coach. Welcome aboard! IPOT and Orwell have promised to follow; others may too.

I would prefer a GM from outside the organization. This franchise needs to clean house and welcome new ideas. Epstein trained Cherington; it could be Theo redux if he becomes the GM.

I think we are probably about 2-3 years away right now. I cannot see an elite SP that is going to come available this year. CJ Wilson is not that guy. I remember that someone posted a list of SP FAs for after NEXT year, and that list is impressive. I would rather accept mediocrity next year and try to win a ring in 2013 than go after someone who isn't really the answer. Our problem is pitching; that much is obvious. I just don't see us solving that plus the clubhouse issues in one year, no matter who is managing or who the GM is. Also, in case anyone missed it, here is an article with some of the details of the scope of the clubhouse problems: http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2011/10/12/red_sox_unity_dedication_dissolved_during_epic_late_season_collapse/?p1=News_links

While I will certainly not miss Epstein, I do appreciate his role in winning two rings. Its time for a change though. I wish him the best of luck, as I do Francona.

Both Epstein and Francona were responsible for the me me me and anything goes attitude in the clubhouse. Those factors played as big a role as our lack of pitching in our failures this year. Once those two are gone rebuilding can commence, assuming we get the right people in those positions.

Yes, we would/should have made it into the playoffs. But just how far would we have gone? Not far at all IMHO. We finished NINTH in overall pitching in the league this year. How were we going to make a serious run with guys like Lackey, Wakefield, Albers, Miller, Morales, and Weiland on the staff? And who is responsible for our pitching staff being in such dire straits? Thats right: Theo Epstein. He really isn't a very good judge of FA talent at all.

Yeah, and thanks for Cameron, Lackey, Crawford, Lugo, Renteria, Smoltz, Penny, Gagne, Clement, Schoenweiss, Wakefield over the past two years and all the rest of the dregs you have allowed to wear the Sox uniform. Cherington should not be hired; he is an insider. If we want the me me me attitude to end, the new GM should come from outside the organization.

So do his results. This guy just doesn't know when to hang them up. Of course, as he says, "The fans deserve to see me go for the all time Red Sox win record" for pitchers. He exemplifies the me me me attitude that cost this team the playoffs this year. The only way he comes back is if Epstein comes back because that selfish jerk is part of the good 'ol boy network and Epstein doesn't have the good judgement to let him go.

I thought we were discussing THIS year. Over his career its clear that Lester has been better. This year he was not the ace of the team, and as I said, I don't care what happened in 2010. Frankly, neither guy is what we need for a #1 IMO. Both are very good #2s for a playoff team hoping for a ring.

Good debate..gotta split for the sunset run.