Orange Juiced

Did you even actually read my post and follow my train of thought? Because this comment gives the impression that you didn't.

Over his last 46 games (more than 1/4 of a season), Iggy was hitting .256/.301/.301/.601, with 0 hr and 12 rbi. That may be his true offensive level, and if so, paired with his glove, makes him a pretty useful SS. Detroit would love that. However, even though he really struggled this year in the majors, Middlebrooks' season line (53 games) is: .192/.228/.389/.617, 9 hr, 25 rbi. If this is the "crappy" version of Middlebrooks, that means there's a LOT of room for improvement. We know he's a very capable hitter. But even if that's all we get, it's *still* an offensive upgrade at 3b from Iglesias. And Middlebrooks' glove is very good for 3b. A lot of Iglesias' glove magic is underutilized at 3b (compared to SS). I'll happily put Middlebrooks into the lineup and put him in the #9 hole to take the pressure off, and just let him hit the occasional homer, and maybe, just maybe, he'll get back to last year's form. Iglesias could never touch that.

Peavy's numbers this year: 80.0 ip, 74 h, 38 er, 17 bb, 76 k, 4.28 era, 1.14 whip, 8.6 k/9 A few starts ago he was horrid: 2.1 ip, 7 h, 6 er, 0 bb, 0 k. I know you can't "take that away" because they all count, but indulge me just for a moment. Take that start away and his numbers look like this: 77.2 ip, 67 h, 32 er, 17 bb, 76 k, 3.71 era, 1.08 whip, 8.9 k/9 And *that* is a very, very good starting pitcher. So why do I mention this? Because (a) his season totals are greatly affected by this one horrible outing, and other than that one start he's been very good this year, and ( the likelihood of him having another start like that is very small. Odds are good he'll throw up a couple more stinkers the rest of the season, but not like *that*. And, as we've seen, other than this horrid start, he's been really good. So the odds seem pretty good that we'll be getting a starting pitcher who should give us an era in the upper 3's, with a very low whip and high strikeout rate. What's not to like about that?

We will miss Iggy's glove. We will not miss Iggy's bat. We will love watching Xander Bogaerts play SS for the Red Sox for 5-8 years starting in 2014, and will not regret this Iglesias-Peavy trade one little bit, even if Peavy doesn't really help that much.

See first post in the thread for an update on my predictions. http://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/16522-Trade-Deadline-Predictions-for-the-Sox?p=856850&viewfull=1#post856850

Exactly. Oh and the Sox also got a reliever (Brayan Villarreal) who is currently injured and in the minors, but who is 26 years old and who last year for Detroit put up this line: 54.2 ip, 2.63 era, 162 era+, 1.21 whip, 10.9 k/9 So he can throw and has the potential to be very, very helpful in the bullpen down the road.

Woke up this morning and found out about the details of the trade. I don't know how anyone here could be upset about this. Peavy isn't an ace, but he's pretty good, and the Sox gave up Iglesias and a couple of low-minors wild card prospects that are nowhere near their top 20. That is a steal. Great job by Cherington on this trade. It solves two issues for them, because they can now move Workman to the bullpen, which gives them a real nice arm there as well. And it also clears the way for WMB or Bogaerts to come up and play 3b down the stretch.

No way the Sox would move Doubront before Dempster, given what Palodios presented. No way. Doubront is lefty, MUCH younger, MUCH cheaper, and under Sox' control for much longer. There is zero reason to move him instead of Dempster, unless the haul you get back is off the charts.

Worry about that in the offseason. A guy like Dempster could easily be moved for a prospect.

I'm hoping it's a guy whose first name begins with an X, and whose last name begins with a B, and he's just 20 years old.

Bing-freaking-GO. I don't love Peavy, but if this is essentially the deal, it means the Sox got a pretty good starting pitcher for Iglesias, which I never would have thought possible.

@GordonEdes: Three-way deal with White Sox, Tigers land Peavy for Boston, plus big-leaguer from Detroit. Iglesias To White Sox I wonder who the big-leaguer from Detroit is that ends up in Boston? (I hope there's a major paperwork error and it's Miguel Cabrera.....)

If Iglesias is the biggest piece in the package, I'm actually surprisingly ok with this. Love Iggy's glove and think he will be a useful major leaguer, but this really clears the way for Bogaerts, unimpeded by anything, really. Don't love Peavy, but he'll probably help.

The issue is that the Sox have too many good prospects - even if they all pan out (they won't), they can't all play for the big-league club. Just too many of them. So they're going to have to move some of them if they all turn out to be as good as advertised. And if some of them aren't as good as advertised, then those guys are guys you'd want to move now anyway. The trick is guessing right on which ones to move. I agree with you in principle, but trading the right prospects to improve now is a huge part of the value of having good prospects.

In other potentially momentous news... http://joefrisaro.mlblogs.com/2013/07/30/could-red-sox-sway-marlins-to-move-stanton/ "A league source said Boston may be willing to part with whatever it takes in hopes of swaying the Marlins to relocate Stanton to Fenway Park. The Red Sox indeed have a strong system, and it would likely take four or five players alone to secure Stanton’s services. But is there a fit between the clubs? The Red Sox top prospect is shortstop Xander Bogaerts, ranked by MLB.com as the sixth overall prospect in the game. But the Marlins have Adeiny Hechavarria, a shortstop many in the organization feel is the best defender at his position in the National League. What if Bogaerts is able to switch to second base? If so, an Hechavarria-Bogaerts middle infield could be attractive to Miami. Boston’s No. 2 ranked prospect is Jackie Bradley, a left-handed hitting outfielder, who also likely would have to be included in any potential deal. From Miami’s point of view, is there a need for Bradley? If Stanton is dealt, the organization could then go with Christian Yelich in left, Jake Marisnick in center and Marcell Ozuna in right. So where would Bradley fit? Or is he an upgrade over any of the players Miami already has in the outfield. If not, it wouldn’t make sense for the Marlins. Ozuna, however, will miss the remainder of the season after undergoing left thumb surgery. Certainly, outfield depth would be needed. Another position the Marlins would likely want is pitching. The club pretty much seeks a pitcher in return of any trade they make. Pitchers Allen Webster and Henry Owens are Boston’s third and fourth ranked prospects, respectively. Lefty Trey Ball was the No. 7 overall pick in the 2013 First-Year Player Draft. Would those five or four of those five get a deal done? Or it could be a combination of three or four top prospects, and a player or two already on Boston’s big league roster?" = = = = = Holy crap. That would be an unbelievable blockbuster - unloading 4-5 of the top 10 prospects to land Stanton? Geez...

It's totally fine if the Sox come away "empty-handed". I really think they have the horses to stay right in this til the end, and they have plenty of young firepower from within the organization that can help.

We should have plenty of good prospects to get that deal done, without touching any of our top 10-15 guys. (thats how deep the Sox' system is right now)

From mlbtraderumors: "Pitchers Ian Kennedy and J.J. Putz of the Diamondbacks and Kyle Farnsworth of the Rays "have suddenly been made available." Trading Kennedy would allow Arizona to clear around $1.4MM toward another move. Are they that hard up for cash?" Ian Kennedy is someone I think the Sox should look at. Why? 1. He's under control through 2015, so the Sox would get him for 2+ seasons, minimum. No rental. 2. Not that expensive. Arbitration eligible for 2014, but he is but a fraction of Lee's cost. 3. Solid pitcher. From 2010-2012 his numbers are 3.55 era, 115 era+, 1.19 whip, 8.0 k/9. 4. The cost to acquire him shouldn't be that much. He's having a bad year this year, so you're buying very low on him. And if you can get Putz as well, that helps both the rotation and the bullpen. Worth kicking the tires, anyway.

I don't care about the money. I care about not giving up Bogaerts or Bradley.

Geez, I'd rather eat all the money and not give up JBJ. I could live with Cecchini and Barnes plus a lesser 3rd guy if we take on all the $$. But JBJ needs to be here to replace Ellsbury. I just can't see Boston taking on $25m of Cliff Lee and then adding $18m of Jacoby Ellsbury.

Nick Cafardo tweets: "From every indication Phillies won't settle for anything less than Bogaerts at the head of any package for Lee" Please Ben, no. Do NOT give up Bogaerts. He's a generational prospect. I want to see him hitting 40 homers and putting up a .950 ops playing SS for the Red Sox for the next 10-12 seasons......

The problem is that it's likely going to take a 6/108 deal ($18m per season) to sign Ellsbury. That may be prohibitive if you've just added a $25 million per year Cliff Lee. Remember, the Sox just escaped salary payroll hell with the Dodgers trade last year. I don't think they'll be too quick to jump right back into it. One mega contract is fine (Lee). But then that's why they need JBJ..to be the young, inexpensive, talented CF to replace the departed Jacoby.

I guess the question vis-a-vis Lee is this: What's the absolute most you would be willing to give up to get him? Understand that there's a very high likelihood that he'll be just what he's been the past six seasons - a complete ace stud. And you'll have him for 2 more years after this to anchor your rotation, so the Sox' rotation next year could look like: Lee, Lester, Buchholz, Lackey, Doubront. That's an INCREDIBLE rotation. Here are the Sox' minor league chips (this is taken from a poster on SoSH: http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/78133-needs-and-assets-going-into-july-we-are-on-pace-for-97-wins-oh-my/?p=4852571): Bogearts, Bradley, Owens = Untouchable/Non starters Webster, DLR, Cecchini = Premium talent available in the right deal/centerpiece for a big deal (need money coming back with Lee to consider) Barnes, Ranaudo, Swihart, Workman, Britton, Marrero, Vazquez, Buttrey, Middlebrooks, Iglesias = Building blocks for a trade/valuable but not hard to part with. Ball, Denney, Stankiewicz, Brentz, Coyle, Wilson, Longhi, Williams, Littrell = Can't be traded because of DL or recently drafted/PTBNL with value Betts, Margot, Almanzar, De La Cruz, Ramos, Lin = Lottery tickets/pot sweeteners The rest are just organizational filler fungible prospects/PTBNL with little value We know the Phillies would want as much as they could get, that goes without saying (and yet there, I said it). Here's what I wouldn't include: Bogaerts, Bradley Jr., or Owens. I would be willing to part with one guy in the second tier and two in the third tier. That's a LOT of significant talent going to Philly. But it wouldn't break the Sox' minor league bank. Still tons of quality talent in the Sox' system that is already or nearly MLB ready. I'd offer something like: Webster, Ranaudo, Iglesias, and a fourth piece like Margot.

What Palodios said. Philly apparently wants to have their cake and eat it too - a huge prospect haul *and* the Sox to take on all of Lee's salary. Lee is a bona fide ace in every conceivable way, and he would help this team considerably, but that's an awful lot to give up. It's actually kind of amazing. Since 2008 he's been perhaps baseball's best starting pitcher. And yet he's been dealt numerous times. Strange.

Let's talk about Cecchini for a minute. Look at these numbers the past two seasons in the minors: 2012 - .305/.394/.433/.827 2013 - .341/.454/.515/.968 Tremendous hitter, terrible fielder for a 3b. Might we have our future 1b or corner OF instead of a 3b? That way Middlebrooks (assuming he gets back on track) ends up as the future 3b, Bogaerts the future SS, and Cecchini and Bradley in the OF?